How to Overcome Fear & Win in Sales with Evgeniy Kharam

Sponsored by Harford County Living

In this episode of Conversations with Rich Bennett, Evgeniy Kharam shares powerful insights on overcoming fear and mastering soft skills to succeed in sales—whether in cybersecurity, tech, or any industry. He breaks down how to turn fear into confidence, connect with clients, and win more deals by improving communication. If you want to sell more, present better, and build stronger relationships, this episode is a must-listen!

Guest: Evgeniy Kharam

Evgeniy Kharam is a renowned cybersecurity consultant, speaker, and author with extensive experience working with major enterprises across Canada, the U.S., and Europe. With a background in technical sales and security architecture, he has mastered the art of bridging complex technical expertise with effective communication and human connection. Evgeniy is the author of Architecting Success: The Art of Soft Skills in Technical Sales, where he shares strategies for simplifying technical concepts, improving sales skills, and building meaningful client relationships. He is also the host of the Cyber Inspiration podcast, where he explores the stories behind cybersecurity startups and innovations.

Main Topics:

·         Overcoming Fear in Sales – How to shift fear into confidence and use it to your advantage 

·         The Power of Soft Skills – Why communication and relationship-building matter more than e

Join us for “One Song,” a benefit concert by the Big Infinite to support the Ed Lally Foundation’s mental health and suicide prevention initiatives. This special evening will feature heartfelt music and person stories, fostering connection and well-being among attendees. Come together to celebrate unity and healing through the power of music.

One Song Benefit Concert for the Ed Lally Foundat

Emily Adolph and Ona Crow are the co-creators of Nourish & Connect, an event designed to foster meaningful connections in a supportive and empowering environment. NOURISH & CONNECT – The Soul Lift

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 1:38 Meet Evgeniy Kharam
• 4:00 Why Soft Skills Matter in Sales
• 7:53 How Sales Has Evolved Over the Years
• 11:08 Overcoming Fear in Sales & Public Speaking
• 17:29 Research & Preparation for Sales Success
• 19:57 The Rise of Cybersecurity Startups & Competition
• 25:56 The Role of AI in Sales & Communication
• 33:02 Techniques to Improve Public Speaking
• 39:34 Preventing Burnout in Sales & Tech Careers
• 42:09 The Future of Sales & Business Communication
• 45:23 Where to Find Evgeniy’s Book & Resources
• 51:07 Closing Thoughts

Transcript

Rich & Wendy 0:00
Hey, everyone is Rich Bennett. Can you believe it? The show is turning ten this year. I am so grateful for each and every one of you who've tuned in, shared an episode, or even joined the conversation over the years. You're the reason that this podcast has grown into what it is today. Together, we shared laughs, tears and moments that truly matter. So I want to thank you for being part of this journey. Let's make the next ten years even better. Coming to you from the Freedom Federal Credit Union Studios. Harford County Living presents conversations with Rich Bennett. 

Today, I'm going to get kind. 

No, no, no. The truth is. 

Rich Bennett 1:01
Today in conversations with Rich Bennett, We have an incredible guest joining us. You've Guinee Karem. You've Guinea is a renowned cybersecurity consultant and thought leader who has worked with some of the largest enterprises across Canada, the U.S. and Europe. With years of experience tackling complex technical challenges, including time spent working alongside industry icons. You've Guinea has mastered the art of bridging technical expertise with human connection. He's here to talk about his new book, Architecting Success The Art of Soft Skills in Technical Sales. Connect to Sell More. In it, he shares invaluable insights on simplifying technical ideas, improving communication, and creating meaningful connections. Key strategies that have helped him and countless others succeed in their careers. Ed within the title, even though he says technical sales, Those of you I don't care what you're selling, I believe you're going to get a lot out of this because I've done sales for a long time and you can learn from every industry when it comes to sales. So first of all, how's it going? Guinea 

Evgeniy Kharam 2:18
It's all good. I'm very happy to be on this show. Thank you for having me. Really 

Rich Bennett 2:22
Oh. 

Evgeniy Kharam 2:22
looking into that conversation. 

Rich Bennett 2:24
My pleasure. So I want to start from the beginning of the book. 

Evgeniy Kharam 2:28
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 2:29
Who is you've Guinea. 

Evgeniy Kharam 2:31
Evgeny, this is actually was not done by me. It was done by my mentor and guy guided hiring me. 

Rich Bennett 2:37
Mm hmm. 

Evgeniy Kharam 2:37
And it was kind of fun because we were looking to have someone to write the foreword there and we found someone. But then I wanted to have someone that know me really, really well 

Rich Bennett 2:48
Right. 

Evgeniy Kharam 2:48
to write about who is Yevgeny and a bit of the comics about Yevgeny. I am a fine individual. I'm not very serious most of the time, but when it's come to work and doing the work, I am serious. But I do like to balance between the work and having fun. I. 

Rich Bennett 3:05
Right. 

Evgeniy Kharam 3:06
Fundamentally believe that you cannot work hard without having fun. You just all go nuts. It doesn't mean you just you're just having fun. But you need to incorporate some of the humor jokes and fun into the work. Then the hard work become much more enjoyable and fun as well. 

Rich Bennett 3:23
I agree with you. 110% there. That's one of the things my father always taught me. He said, you got to have fun at work because if you're not, it's just going to get boring and you're not going to like it. 

Evgeniy Kharam 3:34
You wake up in the morning and you're happy to go to work, 

Rich Bennett 3:37
Yes. 

Evgeniy Kharam 3:37
drive to work, roll out of the bed, and to your left and right now, sometimes you're the kind of you can be very, very fast. These days. Then it's good. 

Rich Bennett 3:46
Oh, yeah. So with the book, I'm going to dive right into this, the first chapter. Define the sales collaboration role. How do you think the evolving dynamics between sales engineers and sales people impact the customer experience in technical sales today? 

Evgeniy Kharam 4:07
Definitely, definitely change by many, many, many structures. Because if you would go 15 years ago and not just insider in many other professions as well, the sales guys was the one that schmoozing and doing all the sales, buying the cookies, buying the lunches. And when it's time to do a demo, the engineer will come in in a way, like almost like a demo monkey. Hey, do the do the demo. Try not to talk too much between the people. Make sure they understand you. They ask you questions that apply to them and then go back to you said and let me close the deal. Yes, I'm a bit kind of going hard, but in essence, the sales engineer role was not to create the connection, was not to follow up for good and for. Matt Definitely, definitely change. It's more of a team work right now. In the good teams it was a team walk in the past as well. But now it's even more. But in the same time not just the sales engineer work change the sales person itself, it all changed as well. If you look at what's happening in technology, we are just technology which everywhere we have a very educated buyers. And we charge you. You don't need a degree to be educated buyer if you want to buy a car, if you want to buy a new kitchen combine firewall, oil appliance, whatever it is. You can go to chargeability or similar and say, Hey, I'm doing research on X, Y, Z. Tell me what do I need to know? Tell me what I need to know in advance. So when you're coming to sell to such customers, you need to understand that they kind of know what they want in most of the cases. Now there's a lot. Because the bot, if you come in with something new, if you only been around for a year and people don't really understand fully what you do, then yes, you do some education and we'll talk about this, how you do the education, 

Rich Bennett 6:14
Yeah. 

Evgeniy Kharam 6:14
because it's very, very important. But to stay on the idea of what's change, the salesperson now not only let me rephrase it, need less education in many cases, but they need to understand how companies buy. Because in the past it was a bit easier. Now you have a lot of documents, you need a lot of agreements, you have a lot of legal. You need to make sure you have all the paperwork. You do understand why that is there buyer cycles. So you almost became like a procurement guru versus just, hey, let me show you how technology works and why you should buy it. 

Rich Bennett 6:54
That's how I remember when I was in the IT field years ago, long, long time ago, it seemed. And I didn't do sales. I was service, but it seemed like the sales people, 

it was a lot easier then, I guess, because a lot of places were just getting into it. If that. 

Evgeniy Kharam 7:16
It was easier to fly off in the week 

Rich Bennett 7:20
Yeah. 

Evgeniy Kharam 7:20
because people didn't really know exactly what's happening. 

Rich Bennett 7:26
Right. 

Evgeniy Kharam 7:26
But now you can just see something that it's not true. People will catch you. You really need to be careful on what are you telling people? people? What is the story and how you also present this story? 

Rich Bennett 7:42
Yeah. And especially, I guess with with AI growing the way it is too. I never even thought about when you say you people can use chat, you just go in and find information. I never even thought about that. 

Evgeniy Kharam 7:54
It's become more popular and popular because. It takes you 10 minutes in Google and it may take 

Rich Bennett 8:00
Yeah. 

Evgeniy Kharam 8:00
some blasting charge. Or let's say you need to find a datasheet or PDF or a manual of something called this cyber. You can go to charge because I'm looking for a manual or explanation or please compare this to products to me. You are going to go the same with you're going to get a high level. And I'm not telling people everything because right now, trust everything they say. Unfortunately, no, we're not there. But the high level, the idea, the exploration than the standing, I think it's a very good platform to do it. And it's you're going to go, let's put it. 20 years ago, if you want to research a topic, you have to go to a library. 

Rich Bennett 8:43
Mm. 

Evgeniy Kharam 8:44
You don't need to go to the library anymore. Even so, I suggest people do go to the library because it's an amazing place. But it's different. 

Rich Bennett 8:51
Oh, yeah, absolutely. Well, with the salesperson part, and this may be where technical sales is different than, say, Oh, no, real estate, car sales or ever does The salesperson still need to. Like nowadays other sales, you have to build that relationship first. Deserted. Do they even move technical sales or do you go in right for the close? 

Evgeniy Kharam 9:18
I think even more right now. 

Rich Bennett 9:21
Okay? 

Evgeniy Kharam 9:21
Because there are so many similar companies 

Rich Bennett 9:24
Mm hmm. 

Evgeniy Kharam 9:25
and because of people education and they are relatively easy of finding such companies, offering in the industry, LinkedIn, Reddit, people are going to ask you and challenge you how you differentiate as a company. So creating the connection, I think it's fundamental. And because people lack of focus is very, very big right now, you and me recording or video, some people are going to listen to this. Some will see partial of the video. But for people that are listening to us think about that, most of us have more than one screen. 

Rich Bennett 10:01
Yeah. 

Evgeniy Kharam 10:01
At home. Most of us are not now working from home for a variety of reasons. And even if you're at work, you have more than one screen. So if I'm calling you or we having this zoom call a Google call, would you actually pay attention fully to me? Or maybe you're going to have LinkedIn, Facebook, Outlook, you name it. Running on a second screen and it will say. Hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm. Hmm. Yeah. Very interesting. This is so good. Wow. Yeah. Really? Really. 

Rich Bennett 10:31
Plus the phone screen as well. 

Evgeniy Kharam 10:34
Yes. Yes. So compared to face to face, you and me meeting in an office. 

Rich Bennett 10:41
Yeah. 

Evgeniy Kharam 10:42
When you kind of know where to look on your phone every minute of every 2 minutes is going to be strange or unique. Having a lunch when you may glance on your phone once or twice, but in majority of the time I'm going to have your capture attention for the duration of the meeting. It's much easier for me to sell you or get to the point or get to the interesting part. 

Rich Bennett 11:04
Mm. 

Evgeniy Kharam 11:05
Now, I believe we have to find a way to connect. We have to find a way to find something in common. But even on this call right now, every colleague. But he didn't jump right away to a recording. We joined the call. We spoke about the weather. Even so, we're not intended. We spoke about some ideas and 

Rich Bennett 11:28
Get 

Evgeniy Kharam 11:28
only. 

Rich Bennett 11:29
to know each other a little 

Evgeniy Kharam 11:30
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 11:30
bit. Yeah, 

Evgeniy Kharam 11:30
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 11:31
right, 

Evgeniy Kharam 11:32
Are you a good human being? Will you have fun or just transactional? 

Rich Bennett 11:36
Right. 

Evgeniy Kharam 11:36
And then when people learn more about each other. 

They want to connect. So for people who may be going to watch, I maybe they're not only this for you, but you have a green screen behind you. Oh, similar to green screen. And 

Rich Bennett 11:52
Yeah. 

Evgeniy Kharam 11:52
when I joined, I wanted to ask, why do you have the green screen? These have ritual backgrounds, so it's almost like a hook. I don't have any hooks right now behind me, but sometimes I do have a green screen. I move to a different place. I may have different pictures behind me. There are so many different ways to find a way to connect to each other. We can go on a link theme that we can do a tiny research about a person without. You don't have to be kind of going very, very deep. It's a nice board you have there. I know what you did in Miami last year. This is both easy. Anything. Don't be a creep, okay? Be respectful to people. But if you are respectful or so, let's say you in technology 

Rich Bennett 12:38
Mm hmm. 

Evgeniy Kharam 12:38
and you go on LinkedIn and you research someone and you see the posts as they're doing the comments they're making, you can give you ideas about the person. And sometimes people ask her, But what if I don't see anything from this person? Even on LinkedIn, is barely nothing came to you? This people are more reserved. They're not so flashy. They're more personal. Not good than bad. But it would give you an indication the type of person they are. If you're going to go all extrovert on them, full blown are probably not going to work. It's probably better to be a bit more reserved and be to the point they're going to like this way. But every person in the world, if you find what triggers them. 

Rich Bennett 13:25
Mm hmm. 

Evgeniy Kharam 13:27
It's work. Maybe isn't building sheep out of wood After. After war. Why not? You know, you. And you're able to find them somewhere else. And people that have a hobby. And I think majority of us have wonderful Enwezor will be happy to share information about your hobby if you ask it correctly. So I'll give you an example. I don't really like golf. I honestly don't like golf. 

Rich Bennett 13:53
Right. 

Evgeniy Kharam 13:54
I respect golf, but I don't like golf. If I will be on the call with you and I know you like golf, I might tell you like, you know what? I never understood why people like golf. Like I tried. But can you share your view that why you like golf so much? And I'm going to be honest, I'm not going to be faking. I do want to understand. I like I do have an idea. You know, it's this idea of commitment. Is this idea to repeat something and be good. All the time. Is to understand the wind. Understand and the beautiful outdoors as well. There are a lot of things that are catchy. You know, it's nice to be outdoor for a couple of hours with people 

Rich Bennett 14:33
Yeah. 

Evgeniy Kharam 14:33
you like. 

Rich Bennett 14:36
That's basically that's your research, too, because I think in all honesty, I think a lot of sales people, depending on field they're in, but I think it's something where they're missing the boat. They're not doing their research, they're not finding out about the individual they want to talk to or they need to talk to and. 

Evgeniy Kharam 14:58
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 15:00
How and I'm sure you cover this in your book as well, but is there a secret besides what you just said? You know, but you of course, you got to get past the gatekeeper to get that main call. Is there a secret to where they can do their research to find out more about the individual, I guess the decision maker that they need to talk to? 

Evgeniy Kharam 15:20
Decision makers are going to be a bit harder because it's going to be depend on the company. But I think decision maker is part of your discovery on the call. So during the call, maybe in the first column, maybe. 

Rich Bennett 15:34
Right. 

Evgeniy Kharam 15:34
can call. You can gently ask just to understand the lay of the land. To move this forward, what we need to do is as the people in your team, other people in the organization, they need to see my solution. They need to blast my solution. And when you build the tiny airport, the tiny connection, you can ask just to be just to understand, would you be the person that you were signing this contract? Was this an old question? You know. 

Rich Bennett 16:08
Yeah. 

Huh? God. 

Evgeniy Kharam 16:13
It can go a route, it can go direct because the person is not the guy or the girl, and they want to feel like they're important. They may get offended. So you need to understand how and I hand out to ask it in a way that not to hurt their feelings. 

Rich Bennett 16:33
Going back to the war you were talking about earlier, basically like the pre-meeting research. What's one surprise and insider opportunity you've uncovered through the pre-meeting research that significantly enhanced the sales interaction for you? 

Evgeniy Kharam 16:52
When I'm doing the research correctly and I understand what people did with the following, I can potentially, potentially understand because if they're following my competitors, for example, you can find the coming of my competitors, like okay, it's not the first time education completely beside being educated, you already know my competitors, so I need to understand and present it better and decide do I just go blind in the blind? I mean, I'm just talk about myself and not trying to say why am I better than somebody else? 

Rich Bennett 17:30
Right. 

Evgeniy Kharam 17:31
Or I say, or we are better than somebody else. But knowing the information that we are not first and knowing the information as are players and just usually casual players and who they are can definitely help me to decide my angle. Also, 

definitely, definitely can find how to connect to you and how to talk to you as well. Because some people we want to understand more and talk. Some people really want to see the demo. Some people want to understand the architecture and how it is going to work. 

Rich Bennett 18:05
Right. 

Evgeniy Kharam 18:05
I was on a call with a client of mine who was their customer like literally this week, and we were explaining the reporting structure of the product. 

And one of the guys was an architect. Now I'm also an architect, and I was kind of curious what's going to happen because I had a feeling that he will try to go the and yes, like he went deep a goal. So you showing us this report. What is the mechanism? How do you decide this report? Good and bad. Like, okay, great. And you're like, we were smiling because we were kind of expected to build some of this. 

Rich Bennett 18:42
Right. 

Evgeniy Kharam 18:43
Deep questions. And it was good. It was it wasn't bad. But when you know who will be on the call, you can expect what kind of questions they're going to be, because some people are asking questions out of curiosity and some people asking questions because they want to show they are the smartest people in the. 

Rich Bennett 19:02
With. 

I, I don't even know if I'd be able to do it nowadays. But with the rise of cyber security, is it and you'd mentioned competitors. Is it very challenging? Is there a lot of different companies out there? Oh, God. 

Evgeniy Kharam 19:20
Yeah, it's almost it's almost like mushrooms the moment somebody's come I with the idea you should expect in a few months to have another four or five companies in a week. If you look on this, if you're the only companies are doing this. Why? You know, we what is the collective human brain that only you can get any idea, you know? Okay. We can maybe claim that Tesla was the first electric car idea, but then again, not so quickly, but 

Rich Bennett 19:53
Right. 

Evgeniy Kharam 19:53
relatively quickly. People was able to keep up and do it right now. But yes, sometimes we have ideas and they're going to be the first one with the idea. But we're going to have people coming with a very similar idea of version two of the idea doing something similar. 

Rich Bennett 20:11
All right. So be honest with me. How many different companies have come to you and tried to recruit you? 

Evgeniy Kharam 20:18
People usually come and try to recruit me all the time. 

Rich Bennett 20:21
Okay. 

Evgeniy Kharam 20:21
Since I last heard of a group about two and a half years ago, many companies usually trying the asking to recruit. But because I wanted to be independent for now, then it's not go for now. 

Rich Bennett 20:34
Okay. You're focused on being an author now, right? An author per news. 

Evgeniy Kharam 20:38
I am trying forward to be an author, but if the author listening to me right now, they know it's not an easy way to make a living. 

Rich Bennett 20:48
No, it's not. 

Evgeniy Kharam 20:48
No. So it's a complementary. I'm playing the game or being an author. But I also do understand this is not Harry Potter. It's not going to sell ten and honeymoons are copies. So I use the book as a way to get in. I use the book to we to do more sessions present to people. It's a very, very good. It's not easy to write a book. You know, there's 

Rich Bennett 21:16
Right. 

Evgeniy Kharam 21:16
a lot of people just clean or just go in charge of picking. Going to have a book in 10 minutes or, you know, this is the book you're going to have in 10 minutes. And it's not it's not going to be deep at all. It's not going to be interesting at all, probably as well. So it does give you credibility to have a book. It does give you more understanding. It's something I carry in my trunk, in my car. And from time to time, 

Rich Bennett 21:40
Martin. 

Evgeniy Kharam 21:40
when you're speaking to customers physically, not over Zoom, you give their way of opening up. I have a big book sign. It's definitely a nice gesture as well. 

Rich Bennett 21:50
Yeah. Now, do you actually go and outside of, you know, the sales part, do you actually go and speak. Like at. I don't know. Yeah. 

Evgeniy Kharam 22:00
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 22:01
Like conferences at all for cybersecurity and all. 

Evgeniy Kharam 22:03
Yeah, Yeah, I did it before, before the book as well. And I spoke a few after the book came out as well and planning to do more as well. 

Rich Bennett 22:11
Okay? 

Evgeniy Kharam 22:12
And it is it is nice and interesting because as part of the conferences, many of them can give you a table to sell 

Rich Bennett 22:18
Yeah. 

Evgeniy Kharam 22:18
the book, to sign the book to attract people as well. 

Rich Bennett 22:21
This is your first book, right? 

Evgeniy Kharam 22:23
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 22:24
Not your last, though. 

Evgeniy Kharam 22:25
And know. Not I already. I already realize. I'll give you a hint. A lot of stuff in the book. Applicable. Not just to say it. What I didn't realize when I was writing the book, that is, there is a population of people that are going to be even more applicable. There's actually several of them. So one engineering and communication is one is very important, but even more focused is immigrants. 

Immigrants in Canada, in U.S., because my journey as a second time immigrant, from what I see right now and when I'm talking to people, it's very, very appealing. People like a again, what do you do with your accent? Are you okay with your accent? How hard it was for you to go and do public speaking. But I'm afraid of this. But what do I do here? A There is meetings and they're afraid to talk because I think people may not understand because of my accent. A lot of the people that are not native and for the native folks is like, What do you mean? You know? 

Rich Bennett 23:36
Yeah. 

Evgeniy Kharam 23:37
It's not something that you can understand because you've never been in the shoes. 

Rich Bennett 23:42
I've never even thought about that. And I guess just because I mean, I've talked to so many different people, you know, from different countries and everything a I had been in the i t world before. You get used 

Evgeniy Kharam 23:58
So 

Rich Bennett 23:58
to. 

Evgeniy Kharam 23:59
you've been in even in that order before, you probably know many how this people meaning it. 

Rich Bennett 24:04
Uh huh. 

Evgeniy Kharam 24:05
The only thing. He's smart, 

Rich Bennett 24:07
Oh, 

Evgeniy Kharam 24:07
amazingly 

Rich Bennett 24:07
yes. 

Evgeniy Kharam 24:08
shy. In the same time he's able will write you an email, you know, come talk to you. But they will not stand in the chair and explain to the entire room what's missing, what's wrong, and how we need to behave. 

Rich Bennett 24:21
Yeah. 

Evgeniy Kharam 24:23
From a variety of reasons. And they still want to advance in the career and they should be advancing in. Yea. Do you know that public speaking is the second phobia after deaf? 

Rich Bennett 24:36
Yes, I and I that does not surprise me because I do know of a few musicians, top musicians that were afraid of that. They did well, when you're singing, they call it stage fright, but they would stand behind the speakers and sing. 

Evgeniy Kharam 24:53
Now let's think about that. You mentioned stage four stage fright. 

Rich Bennett 24:58
Mm hmm. 

Evgeniy Kharam 24:59
In childhood. Do any people, anyone teach kids? Asked when you were kids about fear. If you went to school, if you went to a theater as a child, they would explain stage fear. Why? Because everyone has them there. 

Rich Bennett 25:19
Yeah. 

Evgeniy Kharam 25:20
As they will teach you breathing, they will teach you visualization techniques to overcome fear 

or accept a fear. The other part may be martial arts. When you go to a ring and fight. 

Rich Bennett 25:35
Yeah. 

Evgeniy Kharam 25:36
Nobody wants to get punch and punch in the nose. We all know that. All your plans go to hell. 

Rich Bennett 25:41
Right. 

Evgeniy Kharam 25:43
good pension goes by beside this too, to maybe the army later on. We're not actually teaching people how to overcome fear. So not surprisingly, people will be scared to talk because within one wing they're talking. It's mean. Somebody say, Oh, you're stupid. This is nonsense. What are you talking about? What are you saying? I have no idea what you what you were trying to achieve here. And I'm being rude right now on purpose, because this is what we are afraid from. 

Rich Bennett 26:15
Yeah. 

Evgeniy Kharam 26:16
No, what it was was not the job that you people used to throw tomatoes, you know, a long, long, long time ago. So we still have this. Now multiply this part. If you. Language is not perfect. If you pronunciation is not perfect. Maybe you're struggling. Maybe you're talking too fast. Maybe you have a very heavy accent. 

Rich Bennett 26:41
You're listening in on the conversations with Rich Bennett. We'll be right back. 

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Evgeniy Kharam 28:16
The idea to talk and open your mouth and project your voice may take time to work to kind of get there. I used to talk very fast. I actually still talk very fast between when I'm between my friends. 

Rich Bennett 28:32
Right. 

Evgeniy Kharam 28:33
A different situation. Not when I'm on recording or podcasting. I used to straddle quite a lot and not having a hard time to explaining what's happening and kind of the ether end of the sentence. I did find the connection between this and being Relax. Being relaxed, lead to confidence, but being relaxed. Basically move the idea to speak much easier. You probably know the shows when somebody comes, it can barely speak. Struggle 

Rich Bennett 29:09
Yeah. 

Evgeniy Kharam 29:10
quite a lot. But then they start to sing and they can do it perfectly. 

Rich Bennett 29:14
Yes. 

Evgeniy Kharam 29:16
What's happening right now is this is like a physical problem we have Is the person. No, I think it's less physical. It's probably more. Dependent person, okay? We're not doctors here. 

Rich Bennett 29:26
Yeah. 

Evgeniy Kharam 29:26
We're not going to go deep on this part. But in many cases, when you know and know how to relax, how to be more confident, and then the idea of struggling, the idea of pronunciation in many cases going away. And I can even go farther in this 

filler words, when we communicate, many of us will say, I'm beginning, you know, here to talk about the child and you like what you're talking about. But if you think about this, we don't want to do pauses. We think that if a continuously doing sound or creating sound, we're going to be looking smarter or better, faster, whatever it is. So when people asking us the questions, in many cases we don't have an answer and therefore sound will be we can do X, Y, Z. And when we speak the same idea. But if people on Toastmasters are listening to us or did speaking training, you probably know that instead of doing filler words, we can replace them with houses. We're not eliminating filler words, we are replacing them and nothing will happen. Nobody going to try to inject the word. People do not think you're stupid. And maybe when people asking you a question instead of answering right away. Just take one breath to think about it and start talking about Just wait a second. But if you pay attention, depend on what people are talking about. When people are talking about their domain, about their expertise, in many cases are going to be less than little words. When you're talking about something else, they're less familiar. They're going to be more filler words. 

Coming back to being relaxed. We're coming back to being in the zone in a flow, whatever you want to call this. And we can train ourselves like monkeys, dogs to actually. Be. Relax. We can train ourselves. There's breathing techniques. There's exercise techniques that will calm you down and mechanically, magically, whatever you want to call this, we can bring all of our trade down. Looking freediving free diving is one of the scariest sports, said. Compared to other sports is deeply affected On how relax you are. You're still physically moving and in the same time you want your heart rate to be as slow as possible because the slower you heartrate, less oxygen, you can't. Contributing. 

Rich Bennett 32:24
Right. 

Evgeniy Kharam 32:25
And the less oxygen you're using, the more time you can be underwater. 

Rich Bennett 32:31
And you teach this or talk about this in the book. 

Evgeniy Kharam 32:35
There is a chapter called Fear. 

Rich Bennett 32:37
Okay. Overcoming fear. 

Evgeniy Kharam 32:39
Yes, there's a chapter called basically How do we not tell you how to come here and why it's important. And I explain why what's happening there is honestly, after the book came out, I added a few things already that I think it's important. So I had screenings them sometimes on video. And what you just talk about free diving kick as well right now. So, yeah, I'm talking about this because if you're a sales engineer or salesperson and you really know the material and you're very, very smart, but you're still afraid to present, then you need to learn how to regulate yourself. 

Rich Bennett 33:14
Where were you back in the eighties when I first got into sales? 

Evgeniy Kharam 33:20
I probably was crawling under the. Sheila Durgahee. The sun was out. 

Rich Bennett 33:26
The funny thing is, all the years I spent and technically I still do sales, but I've never heard anybody explain how to overcome the fear like you just did. Because I know there are a lot of salespeople when it comes time to go present or have that one on one. They are. They're a nervous wreck, but. 

Evgeniy Kharam 33:50
you want to go deeper on this? 

Rich Bennett 33:52
Oh, yeah. Oh, God. Yeah. 

Evgeniy Kharam 33:53
Go deeper. So think about this. 

Is fear good or bad? 

Rich Bennett 34:00
I think it's it can be good. It's combination of both, really. 

Evgeniy Kharam 34:04
So if you see a cricket on the street, you know it's good. If you see a lion in the street, you're not scared. There's a problem. You should be scared. 

Rich Bennett 34:12
I'll probably you try to pet it. 

Evgeniy Kharam 34:15
So what I'm getting with this is there is no bad or good in fear theory. It's indication that something happening. Okay, so there is something happening and you can decide it's a good or bad. Now, if you take excitement and fear there, almost like love and hate very, very close to each other. The difference between fear and excitement that in fear I am not sure about the outcome was excitement. I kind of sure about the outcome. This why I'm more excited if I take a child and I show him a swing, if I shock him. Right. And they're really scared and they spent 40 minutes to explain that they can go down this slide. The moment they go, the fear translate to exciting and just goes there non-stop 55,000 times. 

If you're going to rollercoasters, everything goes. It's fear and excitement. You know, nothing happened, but you still at the same time. What I'm getting with is that we can take the mental mode model of the fear and translated to excitement. 

Because I want to present to one person I am okay. I think I will keep Dr. Rich. Now I need to talk to two people. I'm your key now, and you talk to six people. Now I'm scared. 

Rich Bennett 35:39
Right. 

Evgeniy Kharam 35:39
But you just did it at 2 to 2 or four. Why? You scared of about six? Because it's something new. It's something I know. So I'm not actually scared. I am more excited inside because something new and I'm not sure about the outcome. Maybe not like what's happening. But if I convince myself and explain to myself, it's going to be the same as I needed to. I know what I'm doing. And if I make a mistake, nobody going to throw me out of the bus. Everything's going to be okay. Then I can translate this fear to excitement and just tell myself every time I'm scared. It's actually me. It's a new opportunity. It's something I never done. This is why I'm so excited. Slash feared. 

Rich Bennett 36:26
Huh? 

Evgeniy Kharam 36:27
And it completed this mental mental model. It doesn't mean you magically will stop, be scared, but you can't understand like, Oh, okay, it's not bad. It's actually good. It's mean. They cared about it. It's mean. They need to invoke more energy, more power to convince people to explain what I'm doing. 

Rich Bennett 36:46
Huh? 

So people can even take that, because I know we salespeople, a lot of people are always afraid of rejection. But if they take what you just said, even because you're going to get no's no matter what, it's just natural. But if you knew that eventually those news are going to lead to a yes, you just brush those news to the side. 

Evgeniy Kharam 37:14
You just change, okay? Change the model and say, okay, I'm here, I'm here. It's me. Don't care. 

Rich Bennett 37:21
Yeah. 

Evgeniy Kharam 37:21
Fine. Let's go do the breathing exercise. We sat down even more. Make sure you know your material. Make sure you know what's happening and something magical happened. Because if you stop thinking less about the fear, your brain, your CPU inside your brain can only be attention to so many different things. So if you're talking and presenting to people and you want to pay attention to use light, you want to pay attention to your voice. You want to pay attention to people in front of you. You want to play. It is still breathing, you know, and talking. Then it's going to be very hard to also pay attention to how scared you are. 

Rich Bennett 38:02
Yeah. 

Evgeniy Kharam 38:03
If you're going to be paying attention on how scared you are, you're going to have enough focus point think about the other stuff I just described. You won't pay attention to slide. You'll be very monotone and boring and not able to use your tone and pitch in any way. You're going to be very, very, very. Not great, not real. So by removing eliminating, translating the fear to excitement, we actually opening CPU cycles for of our brain to pay attention to more information. 

Rich Bennett 38:32
Crazy question for you. And I don't think you covered this in a book, but with companies. Especially with the sales force. 

Have you ever seen or actually been part of or even think it's a good idea for companies to take their sales force and basically have like meditation sessions? 

Evgeniy Kharam 38:57
I didn't cover this in the book. I saw people just starting doing something that 

Rich Bennett 39:02
Okay. 

Evgeniy Kharam 39:03
I was going to be conference in April last year and people started doing some meditation in the morning. I saw companies doing like me yoga 

Rich Bennett 39:12
Yeah, 

Evgeniy Kharam 39:12
in the morning sometimes when I was still in the offices. So there's more aware in to this right now, and I think it's more an awareness about burnout for sure, 

Rich Bennett 39:22
right. 

Evgeniy Kharam 39:23
especially on the leaders and not just leaders, engineers as well. So it's slowly getting there. I think we are far away of complete adoption there. But you're getting zero. 

Rich Bennett 39:33
Burnout still a problem, isn't it? 

Evgeniy Kharam 39:36
Even more problem because it's when you have the laptop, the device near you, you can always last message or last e-mail or just, you know, the wait till tomorrow, you know. 

Rich Bennett 39:48
Yeah. So how can companies actually create environments that proactively prevent burnout while still fostering high performing sales cultures? 

Evgeniy Kharam 40:01
Many habits. Introduce me. Habits. You know, done book meetings. Done on the entire time. Make sure you have time for lunch. Go have time to go, Stretch. Go for around for a walk. 

Rich Bennett 40:13
Yeah, there's, you know, and the funny thing is, when I got out of the I.T. field, I started seeing companies. Actually, the one company I worked for, we would do in a day would give bonuses to you if you would go out and walk or do some type of exercise. They would even recommend you go down stairs to the gym and. It just it to me, it cleared my head, you know, me feel so much better. It actually gave me more confidence as well. I don't know why. Maybe just nature breathing it in or so I don't. 

Evgeniy Kharam 40:50
I think it's just changing the focus, moving the body relaxed. And, you know, it's not the quantity, the quality in many, many cases as well. 

Rich Bennett 40:58
Yeah. So with the book because I want to and want to cover one last thing and then I won't because I don't want to give too much away about it, but I want to talk about the publishing part too. Tell us about the bonus chapter. 

Evgeniy Kharam 41:13
This chapter. Yeah. It wasn't an inspiration about the. He was a friend of mine. What will happen in the future. So it's not Europe. You ready to start schools? But let me related to India and what potentially happened with Asia and how people will buy. So basically we changing the way we do research, we just discussing about. 

Rich Bennett 41:31
Right. 

Evgeniy Kharam 41:32
Chad, Djibouti. But we also probably going to see the way that the company's going to change their website to adapt more for change because and the boats to do this. And we're definitely going to see more from Chad Djibouti's agents. Right now, we had our Agenda II this year a lot about performing task by ourself, doing the research, comparing quotes, doing some testings. 

Rich Bennett 41:58
I. I just hope people embrace it. I don't know why so many people are afraid. There's that fear word, again of a I and it's been around since, what, the forties or fifties? Yes. 

Evgeniy Kharam 42:12
Less. I think the parents depend on the generation. And I do think we need to embrace it. I do think we also 

Rich Bennett 42:20
Right. 

Evgeniy Kharam 42:20
don't need to jump and put everything there. So we need to do baby steps. And especially if you are at work, we need to differentiate between your your information and the corporate assets. So corporate assets with you, your policy, things at work. Nothing but a hotel you want. You want to be very careful and what information you put in lamps and charge buildings in general because you may be in trouble. 

Rich Bennett 42:49
Absolutely. Oh, always. Look, you're an author. You always got to edit just like you do of J.G. Beattie. Everything. Whatever it tells you, you have to edit. So what actually inspired you? I have a funny feeling I know the answer to this already, but inspired you to write the book. And how long did it take you? 

Evgeniy Kharam 43:09
Several things. So part of it, because we move work online and that attention span, the way I see a sole people presenting and being very similar. Here's my demo here presentation not adaptive as well, doing all of sales and sales engineering changing. So several, several things. 

Rich Bennett 43:31
Right. How long did it take you to write? 

Evgeniy Kharam 43:34
It was in my mind. I was trying to create a proposal for like six months, and then I stumbled on editorial and decided not to go to a publisher and do a self-publishing. And from there, from October till about May, June, so about nine months. 

Rich Bennett 43:53
Okay. And what was the biggest challenge with it? 

Evgeniy Kharam 43:58
The biggest challenge is to not try not to repeat myself too much. 

Rich Bennett 44:03
Right. 

Evgeniy Kharam 44:04
Have a relatively small book that had a lot of information. And again, as a first time author, you learning from this data, you're not sure what's good for. It's bad. I already learned some things that I would maybe do differently, for example, right now. But But figure out how you can be adaptive and how that information will work from many type of readers as well. Yep. 

Rich Bennett 44:28
And I mentioned in the beginning that I believe it could be well, it is a guidebook, but something to help people in all types of sales. Do you actually believe that? 

Evgeniy Kharam 44:38
Is there going to be a chapter or two that may be very relevant to technology, but everything else can I can help anyone 

Rich Bennett 44:43
Especially the overcoming fear part 

Evgeniy Kharam 44:45
I'm. 

Rich Bennett 44:46
of me. 

Evgeniy Kharam 44:47
Overcome fear with your voice. Born now it's all stories that like how to improve your voice. It's definitely something can help everyone. 

Rich Bennett 44:58
Now. Is there audiobook version of it yet? 

Evgeniy Kharam 45:01
Audiobook actually released about a month ago. 

Rich Bennett 45:04
Really. 

Evgeniy Kharam 45:04
Yes 

Rich Bennett 45:05
Are you 

Evgeniy Kharam 45:05
or 

Rich Bennett 45:05
doing 

Evgeniy Kharam 45:05
no? 

Rich Bennett 45:05
the audio for. 

Evgeniy Kharam 45:07
No. After a lot of thinking, I decided it's going to be very tedious and I decided to hire somebody. 

Rich Bennett 45:13
You should have done it yourself. 

Evgeniy Kharam 45:14
I know, I know. People told me they have a good voice for this, but I decided. 

Rich Bennett 45:18
Well, you can save that for the next one, right? 

Evgeniy Kharam 45:21
Yes. Next one, I'm sure going to be. I mean, my voice. 

Rich Bennett 45:25
So I have a funny feeling you are going to be if you're not working on it already. But any plans on what the next one's going to be about? 

Evgeniy Kharam 45:37
Next month, probably going to be focusing on soft skills or engineering or immigrants or immigration technology. So I'm trying to figure out which one more. Somehow I 

levitate more toward immigrants because I think it's a population that's dear to my heart 

Rich Bennett 45:53
Good idea, 

Evgeniy Kharam 45:54
and. 

Rich Bennett 45:55
actually. Have you thought about writing your own story? 

Evgeniy Kharam 45:58
Not yet. There are a lot of there are some stuff in my book about me, but it's not a biography is definitely not. Not right now. 

Rich Bennett 46:07
Okay. Eventually. 

Evgeniy Kharam 46:08
We need to build this story a bit more. 

Rich Bennett 46:11
So with. With you. I could have sworn I heard something that you also do a podcast. 

Evgeniy Kharam 46:20
I have two podcasts and one related to technology. One is technical with a friend, Dimitri, and the second one is more about the vendors and this inspiration, why they started the company. 

Rich Bennett 46:34
So how long have you been doing the podcast? 

Evgeniy Kharam 46:37
The first one came out about four years ago and the second one about two years ago. 

Rich Bennett 46:41
What are the names of the podcast? 

Evgeniy Kharam 46:42
Security architecture podcast. Is there the technology on? 

Rich Bennett 46:46
Okay. 

Evgeniy Kharam 46:47
And the second one, cyber inspiration. 

Rich Bennett 46:51
Both of them are still happening. You're still doing both of them. 

Evgeniy Kharam 46:54
Architecture of bit glass right now seven inspiration is still going there as an idea because I was interviewing people as part of the book to do one related to sales and sales skills and connection, but need find my bit more times to do this. 

Rich Bennett 47:10
That could be. That could be pretty good. 

Evgeniy Kharam 47:13
I hope so. I have a couple of people that I can introduce them 

Rich Bennett 47:16
Yeah. 

Evgeniy Kharam 47:17
already. I just need to get to the point journalism. 

Rich Bennett 47:20
So since you've been doing podcasts because you've been a guest on a lot of podcasts, from what I've seen, how how has that changed the book sales? Have 

Evgeniy Kharam 47:32
Pan on. Yes, it's definitely increased. It's definitely helping. But I also learned that it depends on the podcast. 

Rich Bennett 47:40
Right. 

Evgeniy Kharam 47:41
The pattern is in some cases he just bring your name out and 

Rich Bennett 47:45
Right. 

Evgeniy Kharam 47:45
create a better vibe. In some cases it is really impacting the book sales. So it's really paint who it is. 

Rich Bennett 47:53
I, I just love the fact that I love sales books always have of always read them and and still do any self-help books, period. I think you can never not get enough of them because you're just. 

Evgeniy Kharam 48:08
Three. 

Rich Bennett 48:09
You're improving yourself. You know, this is something that I would definitely recommend to not just people in the IT world, but anybody. I am cool with it. I am going to tell my neighbor who is in the cybersecurity field that he's and he does is he is like, I'm going to tell him he's got to read it. And Ray, I know you listen, so you definitely got to check it out without a doubt. So is there anything you would like to add before I get to my last question? Besides telling everybody where they can get the book and find your podcast. 

Evgeniy Kharam 48:45
Bookies, soft skills, tax dossier, soft skills, tag dot.com, everything about the book and the blog as well. And that I'm going to Amazon audible available in old Amazon's only thing you can find me as you've gaining from Evga and why cagey I am the last part and when I see that think about 8020 rule or even 9010 rule. It's a very very comfortable inside column for them. But from time to time, push yourself and get out of there. It's a very, very interesting and rewarding. 

Rich Bennett 49:24
All right. So I want you I mean, usually my last question is, what's the next big thing? But I don't I don't want to ask you that. I want you to tell everybody. everybody. Because the about the other things you offer, because you offer different types of coaching. Right. And training. So. 

Evgeniy Kharam 49:44
Poaching. 

Rich Bennett 49:45
Yeah. Push that. 

Evgeniy Kharam 49:46
Thank you. So I do offering coaching to founders to help them with soft skills and communication. I also are coaching and training for customer success. Sales engineers and sales about communication. There is one and I'm not sure it's in the background right now is about salespeople communicating better with engineers and vice versa. So team communication, this is the main one, are soft skills related, and I'm still doing my cybersecurity consulting as well. 

Rich Bennett 50:17
All the people just have to go to soft skills tech. Was it that CIA right for. 

Evgeniy Kharam 50:22
ROCCA Oh, yes. 

Rich Bennett 50:23
Okay. All right. Well, you get the I want to thank you so much. When the next book comes out, you know, you've got to come back on, right? 

Evgeniy Kharam 50:30
I will definitely come back. And it was on the way or the time I flew very, very fast. Like in the beginning, I look on the watch that was 15 minutes and then I look again like, Oh my God, it's only five minute. 

Rich Bennett 50:42
But the thing is, you. You. Just listening to you and looking at your book. You gave me an idea of something that I've never done. And I've had a couple of people on from the I.T. field, especially cybersecurity. And And I've I'm going to seriously think about this. If I do it virtually, I would love for you to come on. I would love to do a round table discussion about cybersecurity. 

Evgeniy Kharam 51:09
It's a good idea. 

Rich Bennett 51:11
Because I. 

Evgeniy Kharam 51:11
I'm happy to be there. 

Rich Bennett 51:13
Also, I will make sure it stopped because I think a lot of people are they don't understand it. 

And it's just like when the cloud came out, a lot of people didn't understand it. They were afraid of it. You know, people just like with it, they need to open their arms and embrace it. And cyber security is it's big and it's it's just growing more and more and more. And I'm glad, Elise, here. I'm happy to see the schools teaching it as well. 

Evgeniy Kharam 51:49
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 51:50
And it's amazing. So those of you listening when you purchase his book, as I said, when architecting success, the Art of Soft Skills, the technical sales connect to sell more, make sure you leave a full review. And those of you that are in the field, you know, in the business where you have a sales team. I would suggest that you buy several different copies for everybody on your sales force because it's just going to help them, especially the overcoming fear part. So. Eugenie, thanks so much, man. It's been a pleasure. 

Evgeniy Kharam 52:29
Thank you very much. And I really enjoyed it. 

Rich Bennett 52:32
Thank you for listening to the conversations with Rich Bennett. I hope you enjoy today's episode and learn something from it as I did. If you'd like to hear more conversations like this, be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode. And if you have a moment, I'd love if you could leave a review. It helps us reach more listeners and share more incredible stories. Don't forget to connect with us on social media or visit our website at conversations with Rich Bennett. Com for updates, giveaways and more. Until next time, take care. Be kind and keep the conversations going.