Secrets to Marketing Success with Top Women in Business

Sponsored by Harford County Living

In this episode of Conversations with Rich Bennett, sponsored by Harford County Living, Rich sits down with four powerhouse women in marketing: Jennifer Hathaway, Grace Vohs, and Michelle Hayes. Together, they dive into the realities of social media marketing, the challenges of running a marketing business, and how to attract the right clients while setting boundaries.

From vetting potential clients and debunking the myth of “going viral” to leveraging social media recommendations for business growth, this conversation is packed with insights, humor, and real-world advice for entrepreneurs, business owners, and marketing professionals alike. Plus, hear Rich’s hilarious story about looking “homeless” and scaring off podcast guests and why Michelle refuses to work with TikTok.

If you’re looking for practical marketing strategies, expert insights, and a few laughs along the way, this episode is a must-listen! 🎧✨

🔗 Listen now & subscribe!

Sincerely Sawyer Photography, LLC

CleverCat Marketing

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As a sponsor, you’ll gain valuable exposure through featured content, interviews, and promotions—just like this episode of Conversations with Rich Bennett! With a targeted local audience, your business will be front and center with potential customers who value supporting local brands.

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👉 Your co

Emily Adolph and Ona Crow are the co-creators of Nourish & Connect, an event designed to foster meaningful connections in a supportive and empowering environment. NOURISH & CONNECT – The Soul Lift

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction & 10-Year Podcast Anniversary
• 1:55 Meet the Marketing Experts
• 8:25 How to Vet Clients & Spot Red Flags
• 13:55 The Importance of Setting Boundaries in Marketing
• 21:55 How Social Media Drives Real Business Growth
• 26:10 Why “Going Viral” Isn’t a Marketing Strategy
• 32:25 The Biggest Social Media Mistakes to Avoid
• 39:25 Facebook Ads That Actually Work
• 42:45 Should Every Business Be on Social Media?
• 47:55 The Power of Community Recommendations
• 52:55 Fun & Unexpected Marketing Insights
• 56:25 Final Thoughts & Where to Connect

Transcript

Rich & Wendy 0:00
Hey, everyone is Rich Bennett. Can you believe it? The show is turning ten this year. I am so grateful for each and every one of you who've tuned in, shared an episode, or even joined the conversation over the years. You're the reason that this podcast has grown into what it is today. Together, we shared laughs, tears and moments that truly matter. So I want to thank you for being part of this journey. Let's make the next ten years even better. Coming to you from the Freedom Federal Credit Union Studios. Harford County Living presents conversations with Rich Bennett. 

Today, I'm going to get kind. 

No, no, no. The truth is. 

Rich Bennett 1:00
I decided I wanted to do around the world marketing again. We haven't done one in a while, so I figured why not do it with four ladies that are in marketing? It just makes sense. And we're going to cover a lot about social media marketing, the ins and outs of some of them websites. The challenges of running a marketing company like they have been. So well, let's just get into it all. Let them all introduce themselves. 

Danielle Murphy 1:31
Hi, everyone. I'm Daniel Murphy. I'm a mom of three, but I also do social media management website design and my company is Mermaid Cove Marketing. So. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:44
Hi, I'm Jennifer Hathaway, I. 

Rich Bennett 1:46
Who? 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:47
Jennifer Hathaway. So I work in marketing. I work full time for Profile's PR, and then I have a photography business called Sincerely Sawyer Photography. I'm also a mom of three and do social media management and pretty much all things marketing and photography. 

Grace Vohs 2:06
Hi, I'm Grace Voss, and I'm a senior at Salisbury University. 

Rich Bennett 2:11
Sorry. 

Grace Vohs 2:13
He should be. I study communications and marketing. And I graduate. This may so be out in the world after that. Oh, and I'm Michel's intern. intern. 

Michelle Hayes 2:26
Why? 

Grace Vohs 2:27
By the way. 

Michelle Hayes 2:29
I'm sorry. 

Rich Bennett 2:31
I'm waiting on you. You're holding everything up. 

Michelle Hayes 2:34
I'm Michelle Hayes. I'm who Grace is interning with. I own clever cat marketing, a partner with wretch. Thank God he keeps me straight sometimes. I have a teenage son at home and we actually, I as of 2025, we just moved into our first office and we're very, very excited to be able to host clients in office with our wonderful tech set up with our tech lead. My husband. 

Rich Bennett 3:05
So we have a cat, a mermaid, an intern, and the woman with the eye. 

Jennifer Hathaway 3:11
The crazy PR girl. 

Rich Bennett 3:13
Well, now I'm. 

This. 

Michelle Hayes 3:16
So. 

Rich Bennett 3:17
Jennifer Newsom. I'm going with this because 

Jennifer Hathaway 3:18
Hmm. 

Rich Bennett 3:19
I'm. On her four 

Michelle Hayes 3:19
But 

Rich Bennett 3:20
year. 

Michelle Hayes 3:20
we have no dogs, thank God. 

Rich Bennett 3:21
Well. 

So, Jennifer, when it comes to photography. 

Should take her business and go all out because she's got a. 

Danielle Murphy 3:35
I looked at your website. 

Rich Bennett 3:35
Oh, my. 

Danielle Murphy 3:36
You show. 

Jennifer Hathaway 3:36
think, oh my gosh, my website needs to be updated. Thank you. 

Rich Bennett 3:41
Got the perfect eye and she should be good for branding, photos and all that. 

Jennifer Hathaway 3:45
I loved. 

Rich Bennett 3:46
Hell. She took photos of me and made me look good. 

Michelle Hayes 3:48
Wow. 

Grace Vohs 3:50
That's 

Michelle Hayes 3:50
How 

Grace Vohs 3:50
how. 

Michelle Hayes 3:50
much editing that out take you? 

Sorry. 

Rich Bennett 3:55
What the hell? 

That's just my stuff. 

Michelle Hayes 3:59
I was just asking. 

Rich Bennett 4:01
Yeah. Okay. So. 

Michelle Hayes 4:02
I'm not used to the whole no beard, no hair thing. You don't even have a hat on today. 

Rich Bennett 4:07
Took it off. 

Michelle Hayes 4:08
I know. It's weird. You always have. 

Jennifer Hathaway 4:10
When did you. When did you shave? When. 

Rich Bennett 4:12
Day after Christmas. 

Jennifer Hathaway 4:13
Day after Christmas. 

Rich Bennett 4:14
Which is amazing because the. 

Grace Vohs 4:17
Two years when she seemed. 

Rich Bennett 4:19
Seemed like it was the coldest day of the year and I want gas. And I'm like, Oh, Jesus. It wasn't that bad. 

I was I wanted. So I was messing with my daughter and wife. So when I. 

Michelle Hayes 4:33
I. 

Rich Bennett 4:34
To my head and I thought, I look like a Viking with the beard. 

So then I shaved just the sides and just had the long beard. 

Jennifer Hathaway 4:45
I look like. 

Rich Bennett 4:46
Billy goat. 

Michelle Hayes 4:47
A. 

Rich Bennett 4:48
Oh, God, no. I said, What about if I just shaved the beard and keep the handlebar mustache? 

Jennifer Hathaway 4:54
I mean. 

Rich Bennett 4:55
So I shaved just the mustache and had the beard. So I look like. 

Jennifer Hathaway 5:00
It was honest. 

Michelle Hayes 5:01
Yeah, that's. 

Rich Bennett 5:01
I. So did I. What did they call? 

Michelle Hayes 5:04
Call that thing the 

Rich Bennett 5:05
The 

Michelle Hayes 5:05
sort. 

Rich Bennett 5:05
soul patch. 

Michelle Hayes 5:06
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 5:06
But I had, like, a long soul patch. 

Shave the shit off. 

Michelle Hayes 5:13
Everything. 

Rich Bennett 5:16
I'm going to. I think I'm just going to. I'm going to. Well. 

Grace Vohs 5:20
It is. 

Rich Bennett 5:21
And of growing this. The the. I know that was. 

Jennifer Hathaway 5:27
The mustache contest. Is that at the one fest? I thought it was part of the. 

Michelle Hayes 5:33
Those things get. 

Rich Bennett 5:34
I don't know. 

Michelle Hayes 5:34
Crazy. 

Jennifer Hathaway 5:36
A. 

Michelle Hayes 5:36
They like hanging ornaments in. 

Rich Bennett 5:38
I see. 

Michelle Hayes 5:40
As. 

Rich Bennett 5:41
Nah, nah. I'll probably just keep the goatee. And then May 31st, I'll shave it all off and then start again for Santa. 

Jennifer Hathaway 5:48
Yeah, I know the way that the podcasts have worked out at least the last calendar year. I've seen you like through the stages. 

Rich Bennett 5:56
It's weird. It is. I think I've. 

Michelle Hayes 5:59
Oh, 

Rich Bennett 5:59
I don't know if I told 

Michelle Hayes 6:00
you. 

Rich Bennett 6:00
you. You don't know this. So. When? Before I started having co-hosted. I would always stand aside and wait for my guests to come up. I had three separate women come halfway up the driveway, turn around and left. So contacted as I was. You come up here? Yes. Why didn't you go? That. 

Jennifer Hathaway 6:21
Oh, my. 

Rich Bennett 6:22
Like, how was me? 

Michelle Hayes 6:24
I'm not home. 

Rich Bennett 6:25
Are homeless now about. 

Jennifer Hathaway 6:27
That is so. 

Rich Bennett 6:28
Oh, but I mean, I can understand why women would. 

Michelle Hayes 6:31
You scare. 

Rich Bennett 6:32
Coming up in two. 

Danielle Murphy 6:33
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 6:34
secluded area. 

Danielle Murphy 6:35
definitely. 

Rich Bennett 6:36
There's a guy that looks homeless on me. 

Michelle Hayes 6:39
Ha! Didn't give it away, huh? 

Rich Bennett 6:40
Huh? 

Michelle Hayes 6:41
Your car didn't give it away. 

Jennifer Hathaway 6:43
So you're at a table, too, with a bunch of social media people. We stalk you before. 

Michelle Hayes 6:46
Yeah. 

Jennifer Hathaway 6:47
If I anybody before I meet them face to face, I can usually, like, tell like, you know, where they're from, if they're legit, if their account is seems of 

Rich Bennett 6:59
You stalked me before you came on the first. 

Jennifer Hathaway 7:01
knew. And you went to. 

Michelle Hayes 7:02
I stalk people. 

Jennifer Hathaway 7:03
And so like in your job it's all native like. So that was and you're part of the Lions Club so you. 

Michelle Hayes 7:08
Like. 

Jennifer Hathaway 7:08
Checked the boxes. But if I am meeting with a new client that I haven't met in person or wasn't like referred to a lot of times, I'm sure you guys are. You know, the same way it's a lot of your clients are referred. So. You don't. But if it's somebody like out of the blue or something like that that you get a DM from. You got to put in a little homework. 

Michelle Hayes 7:30
You do. 

Rich Bennett 7:31
Actually, I'm glad you brought that up. So with social media and the three of you bringing on maybe I'm the only picky one. But do you go on if, let's say a. 

Grace Vohs 7:45
The prospect. Contact you 

Rich Bennett 7:47
I want you to help 

Grace Vohs 7:48
help 

Rich Bennett 7:48
them 

Grace Vohs 7:48
them. 

Rich Bennett 7:49
out. Do you? And first. 

Michelle Hayes 7:51
100%. 

Jennifer Hathaway 7:53
Absolutely. You have to make sure that you're a good fit for them. 

Rich Bennett 7:55
Right. Okay. 

Michelle Hayes 7:57
Grayson. I actually have a presentation tomorrow for a potential client that came to us. We know them, but they came to us and asked us for help with some of their marketing, both website and social media. 

Rich Bennett 8:13
Right. 

Michelle Hayes 8:14
And we've spent the last two days and it's quite a bit of work. I mean, you guys know as well, it's 

Danielle Murphy 8:20
long 

Michelle Hayes 8:20
hard. 

Danielle Murphy 8:20
time to develop that process. 

Michelle Hayes 8:22
Yeah. 

Danielle Murphy 8:23
And like, really figure out who do I want to work with? Like, what does my dream client look like? 

Michelle Hayes 8:28
Yeah. 

Danielle Murphy 8:28
How do they treat me? How do they talk to me? What business do they have? You know, and I think nailing that down in your head also helps a lot with those boundaries. Like, hey, 

Grace Vohs 8:38
Hey, 

Danielle Murphy 8:38
this 

Grace Vohs 8:38
this 

Danielle Murphy 8:38
is 

Grace Vohs 8:38
is 

Danielle Murphy 8:38
what 

Grace Vohs 8:38
what 

Danielle Murphy 8:38
I. 

Grace Vohs 8:38
I. 

Danielle Murphy 8:39
In a. 

Jennifer Hathaway 8:40
And this is what 

Danielle Murphy 8:40
what 

Jennifer Hathaway 8:40
I 

Danielle Murphy 8:40
I 

Jennifer Hathaway 8:40
don't 

Danielle Murphy 8:40
don't 

Jennifer Hathaway 8:40
accept. 

Danielle Murphy 8:40
accept. 

Michelle Hayes 8:41
Exactly. 

Danielle Murphy 8:42
Because 

Jennifer Hathaway 8:42
If 

Danielle Murphy 8:42
if you 

Jennifer Hathaway 8:42
you 

Danielle Murphy 8:42
don't 

Jennifer Hathaway 8:42
don't. 

Danielle Murphy 8:42
set those boundaries from the beginning. 

Rich Bennett 8:44
Right. 

Danielle Murphy 8:45
It's a very different. 

Michelle Hayes 8:46
You wind up getting, like, a really 

Danielle Murphy 8:48
get taken. 

Michelle Hayes 8:48
awful guy and. Yeah. 

Jennifer Hathaway 8:50
You got to look for the red flags and the green flag. 

Michelle Hayes 8:52
Yeah, absolutely. 

Danielle Murphy 8:54
Oh, wow. 

Rich Bennett 8:55
I know. I mean, I know for me, I always look at the. Views. 

Michelle Hayes 9:00
I look. 

Rich Bennett 9:00
Three. 

Grace Vohs 9:01
And if 

Rich Bennett 9:01
They 

Grace Vohs 9:01
they. 

Rich Bennett 9:01
got some bad reviews because 

Michelle Hayes 9:03
Because I. 

Rich Bennett 9:03
I'm putting my name. 

Behind them. 

Jennifer Hathaway 9:06
Right. 

Rich Bennett 9:07
Trust them. 

Jennifer Hathaway 9:08
You also. 

Michelle Hayes 9:08
So I think even. Go ahead. Sorry. 

Jennifer Hathaway 9:11
I was just going to say you also you can't always weed out somebody to buy the reviews because they might be coming to you to help with that shift. Like 

Rich Bennett 9:20
Right. 

Jennifer Hathaway 9:20
you PR and PR crisis communication, that's, you know, one small portion of marketing. So you might have somebody coming to you that has a ton of red flags, but you. They are going to listen to your advice if you're going to work together. Because if you're not going to take my advice, this isn't going to work 

Rich Bennett 9:37
Right. 

Jennifer Hathaway 9:37
and you're still going to get those negative reviews. If you want to help turn it around, you have to listen to what we're saying, like you're coming to the professionals for help. Let us help. 

Michelle Hayes 9:46
And I think the way we structure ours is we say we'll buy you a coffee. Our new office is actually behind coffee bar, which is where we were meeting. I love coffee. 

Danielle Murphy 9:57
I go there all the time. I've probably seen you there. 

Michelle Hayes 9:59
Come on. We're right behind. Ally space they are. 

Danielle Murphy 10:03
Yeah. 

Michelle Hayes 10:03
Have little officers 

Danielle Murphy 10:04
Oh, 

Michelle Hayes 10:04
back. 

Danielle Murphy 10:05
I was back there. 

Michelle Hayes 10:06
Yeah. Next time, just come through the glass door and walk down that hallway. We're on the left. We don't have a name tag or anything yet, so just look for the one with the name tag. 

But we always. Our philosophy has always been, you know. You can buy your coffee and we don't discriminate if you don't like coffee. I may think a little less of you because I live on. 

Grace Vohs 10:26
Coffee. 

Michelle Hayes 10:27
But you can have your hot chocolate like it's fine. That's not a green, green flag or a red flag, whatever. But before I judge a client, after doing my appropriate stalking and Grace's learning this, too, and I think it's a really big point is I have them in for an initial meet where we sit down there. I'm very, very specific. When I say no money is discussed, take that off the table immediately because that creates anxiety, that creates that pit in their stomach. If someone comes in and wants to talk money right away, that's a red flag for me. And I don't want to have them as a client because money is kind of the least important in that. 

Because I want to help you and I am happy to create a package that's custom to you with what you need at a price point that you can handle. And having that initial coffee meet. We have a presentation. We show you what we found when we talked to you, and we show you little tidbits like, you know, is your fav account wrong? Is it like, say your, you know, us for a few minutes there we didn't have our little logo was our on in the in the little top of the web browser. We fix that very quickly but we realized it wasn't there. So that's something that we will point out for a prospective client in that deck. And we have a display and we show them or deck and that's something small that we're like, Hey, we could fix this for you very easily. And it's a couple small things like that that we put in there and we say, hey, this is this is something we see. This is how we would change that for you. And it's nothing huge in that deck because you want them to hire you. You want to work with them. So you don't want to kind of, you know, give away the farm, but you also want to make sure that they see that you are validated in what you're saying. You can point out the simple things, so you can also point out the complicated things. I don't know if you want to add anything to our process so far. 

Grace Vohs 12:24
I'm just going off of the social media stalking and things like that. Like you only can go you can only get so much of a picture when you're researching someone and depending on how much they kind of give out there for you to. And to delve into when you have that initial meeting, it's all about kind of putting together the full picture and kind of clearing up some of those maybe misconception that you had if they didn't give you a lot to to stock, if that makes sense. 

Michelle Hayes 12:53
We have a blog post all about it if anyone wants to read in depth. But. 

Rich Bennett 12:57
One of the things I've always hated is the party shoppers. Well, when I. 

Danielle Murphy 13:02
I tell them I'm. 

Grace Vohs 13:02
I'm like. 

Michelle Hayes 13:03
I can't. 

Danielle Murphy 13:03
Can't give you an act. 

Jennifer Hathaway 13:05
Because I. 

Danielle Murphy 13:05
I don't even know what you want. You don't even know what. How am I supposed to sit here and give you a cookie cutter package when you might not even need half the things that are in that package? So yeah, I totally agree that I really go a lot off of like energy and how we mesh in person, because if we don't have the right, if we don't have the same working style, it's not going to work. I'm someone you cannot micromanage me. You can't. I can't do it. I will quit. I will end it. I can. I will explain. 

Jennifer Hathaway 13:36
Explain to you what I'm doing. 

Danielle Murphy 13:38
I have no problem doing that. But if you're going to sit here and act like I am your employee, I am not. This is a partnership. We are going to be working together, hopefully for a long time. I am your wing woman. If we don't. 

Rich Bennett 13:51
Never heard that term before. I like that. 

Danielle Murphy 13:53
Social media wing woman. 

Rich Bennett 13:55
I've always. 

Danielle Murphy 13:55
If. If we'd don't. 

Rich Bennett 13:56
Wing woman. 

Michelle Hayes 13:57
Don't be sexist. 

Grace Vohs 13:58
Oh, 

Rich Bennett 13:58
I'm stumped. 

Grace Vohs 13:58
my. 

Rich Bennett 13:59
Well, I'm 

Michelle Hayes 14:00
To 

Rich Bennett 14:00
not. 

Michelle Hayes 14:00
a room 

Rich Bennett 14:00
I'm. 

Michelle Hayes 14:00
of women. 

Danielle Murphy 14:01
But if we don't. Our personalities don't mesh. There's no point honestly in. Because it's just me here. I don't have a. So you have to get along with me. 

Michelle Hayes 14:13
Yeah. 

Danielle Murphy 14:13
Yeah. 

Jennifer Hathaway 14:14
And I think it's in. 

Rich Bennett 14:15
Now I'm offended at 

Danielle Murphy 14:16
Like. 

Rich Bennett 14:17
that term. Wing man. Now I'm with them. 

Michelle Hayes 14:19
Wing. 

Rich Bennett 14:19
I'm a wing person, you know. 

Michelle Hayes 14:22
I'm just flighty. 

Rich Bennett 14:25
Heard that term wing woman before. 

Michelle Hayes 14:27
Everything. My eyeliner life. 

Rich Bennett 14:29
Dogs. 

Michelle Hayes 14:30
Hey, look. Okay? I love that dog so much. It just love me a lot back. 

Grace Vohs 14:37
I choose to go. 

Rich Bennett 14:38
I mean. 

There are without naming. 

Danielle Murphy 14:46
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 14:48
You 

Grace Vohs 14:49
Each of you share 

Rich Bennett 14:49
should. 

Grace Vohs 14:50
a story about somebody. 

Rich Bennett 14:52
Somebody that approved. 

Michelle Hayes 14:54
You 

Rich Bennett 14:54
To 

Michelle Hayes 14:55
work. 

Rich Bennett 14:55
work with you. And you. 

Grace Vohs 14:56
You simply. 

Rich Bennett 14:57
Could not. God. Okay, Go ahead, Wing woman. It's. 

Danielle Murphy 15:03
I had a girl reach out and I guess she knew me through other people. I'm not really sure. There's always. Connection to someone. 

Michelle Hayes 15:11
I always love the obscure connection 

Danielle Murphy 15:13
Yeah, like going back and tracing it. 

Michelle Hayes 15:15
this person. 

Danielle Murphy 15:15
But I did it. 

Michelle Hayes 15:16
Your 

Danielle Murphy 15:16
Your name? 

Michelle Hayes 15:16
name? 

Danielle Murphy 15:16
I didn't know her personally, and so she asked me a lot of questions upfront, which I'm fine with. 

Michelle Hayes 15:23
When you. 

Danielle Murphy 15:24
But then it would be like having me make multiple phone. 

Michelle Hayes 15:27
Phone calls to her 

Danielle Murphy 15:28
Her two. 

Michelle Hayes 15:28
to answer this. 

Grace Vohs 15:29
The same question. 

Danielle Murphy 15:30
And I have three. 

Grace Vohs 15:31
Kids. 

Danielle Murphy 15:32
I don't have time. 

Michelle Hayes 15:33
To do that. 

Danielle Murphy 15:34
I love you and I want to help you. But if you. 

Jennifer Hathaway 15:37
Can't get 

Danielle Murphy 15:38
Get 

Jennifer Hathaway 15:39
on 

Danielle Murphy 15:39
on the. 

Jennifer Hathaway 15:39
the same page. 

Danielle Murphy 15:40
Of even under. 

Jennifer Hathaway 15:41
Understanding what I'm. 

Danielle Murphy 15:42
I'm doing. You're not going to. 

Jennifer Hathaway 15:43
Value. I do either. 

Danielle Murphy 15:45
You know. So sometimes it just the communication style, the expectation, it just sometimes doesn't match up. So. Yeah, she was a hair stylist and she was like, Where my stories, Where are my posts? I'm like, I just started. I told you, I don't post right away. It takes me a month to sit there and go through your account. So it was a very it was just a different. She was very young too. I think that played a big part of it. 

Michelle Hayes 16:13
I think it does. 

Danielle Murphy 16:14
She was like in her twenties. And I'm like, I have three kids. Like, I don't have time to sit on the phone all day, unfortunately, but. 

Rich Bennett 16:21
Much. 

Jennifer Hathaway 16:22
We. 

Danielle Murphy 16:23
We're doing. 

Jennifer Hathaway 16:24
Doing it all the time. I don't think people understand from the back end if they haven't done it, that it's not just you don't post really on a wing like, yes, sometimes there's timely things that you do bump up in the calendar or something, but usually we're working out like 2 to 4 weeks and we're working out and we're scheduling things. And something that you send over to us, you might not see it published for two weeks or something like that. So we're always working ahead. So we're like, you know, we're working on this client during this time and this client during this time. And that's another little thing is that usually you're not our only client. 

Rich Bennett 16:59
Right. 

Jennifer Hathaway 17:00
So I think there is a little bit of educating clients like during the onboarding process of what the expectations are from you and what the expectations are on our end. And you'll see it. We give our clients a social media report at the end of every month so that they can see it. And so that eliminates some of the questions too, like during the month, because then we can they can see the whole. 

Rich Bennett 17:24
Yeah. 

Jennifer Hathaway 17:25
At the end of the month. And so we I like to say like we're an extension of your team. So it's that level of trust. I am one of the only thing that I can really think of that sticks out in my mind for somebody that I just said, like we were not a good fit. It was for wedding photographer. And it was they weren't a wedding photographer. It was a wedding inquiry. And I just was getting that vibe that they weren't really going to trust anybody. Yeah. And like you were. 

Danielle Murphy 17:54
Who can't ever be happy. 

Jennifer Hathaway 17:55
Yes. Play into your plan. I A wedding is already so fast paced and it's crazy. And yeah, so you need to know exactly. So you're paying. You're paying us not just to provide, you know, the photography service, but for our experience and, you know, a plan A, a plan B, a plan C, and like, that's what we're stressing. We're taking that stress worry. So we don't if you have a certain thing that it's almost like, well, then get a camera and you're going to photograph your own day. I don't. So 

Danielle Murphy 18:26
Professional. 

Jennifer Hathaway 18:27
there's but that I could tell like from the very first email. So there really wasn't a whole lot of back and forth. It was just I think I just told them that I was booked on that day and just ended it. Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 18:37
That's one thing I do not 

Jennifer Hathaway 18:39
but. 

Rich Bennett 18:39
miss. Anymore is deja vu. When he said, thank God I went out and. 

Danielle Murphy 18:43
Oh, I can't imagine a. 

Rich Bennett 18:45
Oh, the headaches. It was a saga ahead, Michelle. 

Michelle Hayes 18:50
I'm just saying, your last wedding was pretty epic and it's still talked about. 

Rich Bennett 18:54
Well. 

Michelle Hayes 18:54
Because, you know, 

Rich Bennett 18:55
Yeah. I mean, the 

Michelle Hayes 18:56
it 

Rich Bennett 18:56
group. 

Michelle Hayes 18:56
was my. 

Rich Bennett 18:56
The group was awesome. 

Michelle Hayes 18:59
The bride was pretty beautiful till. the. 

Rich Bennett 19:03
So. You guys doing this? 

Michelle Hayes 19:06
So I didn't have like a client that we met with them and then it was like an immediate Now I have a client that we took on. And then things started to go a little awry. Thankfully, they were corrected, but it took a while to correct them. 

Red flags started popping up pretty quick. And I think the main thing that was learned because in a business I know you ladies can can relate and you probably can do it with everything else. Sometimes the red flags don't happen until the mask comes off. 

Rich Bennett 19:42
Hmm. 

Michelle Hayes 19:42
And then you're like, Oh my gosh, okay, now what needs to change? And what had to change was multiple meetings and multiple, like reminders to the client, like, Hey, you're not my boss. We are equals here. Like, you have to do your half. Before I can do my half. If the way we work some of our contracts is we create a graphic and they need to approve it just for brand voice. Make sure they're happy with it. We work directly with some CEOs just because we go after smaller businesses, and that's what we prefer. But it's just you need to make sure you have a good body, because if you don't have someone who's going to communicate with you and talk to you regularly and be available for you, it's not going to work. And then if you don't have a direct line to someone with power, that's a problem. I need I need those two things. And I think what we learned from that was in that initial coffee meeting, we need to make sure that we have both of those and, you know, every client to do something. 

Danielle Murphy 20:56
Yes. 

Michelle Hayes 20:57
And. 

Danielle Murphy 21:00
And even to 

Michelle Hayes 21:01
They all teach 

Danielle Murphy 21:02
tell 

Michelle Hayes 21:02
you 

Danielle Murphy 21:02
you, 

Michelle Hayes 21:02
something? 

Danielle Murphy 21:03
like. 

Michelle Hayes 21:04
I mean, we've even like, our first deliverable was a501c3, which we're very proud of. And we learned so much from that, that donation to them that. We learned a lot. We learned a lot. A lot. 

Yeah, we we learned a lot from that on. 

Danielle Murphy 21:28
I just have learned that the more authentic I am online with my own content, the more people who I want to work with gravitate towards that. Because I. I am the person who I will always share about my mental health. That is not something I will ever shy away from. And. So the people 

Jennifer Hathaway 21:47
Who 

Danielle Murphy 21:48
are. 

Jennifer Hathaway 21:48
are 

Danielle Murphy 21:48
No. 

Jennifer Hathaway 21:48
neurodivergent. 

Danielle Murphy 21:49
And or do 

Jennifer Hathaway 21:50
Do 

Danielle Murphy 21:50
you have 

Jennifer Hathaway 21:50
have. 

Danielle Murphy 21:51
ADHD or do? Polar disorder like I do find that common ground. 

Jennifer Hathaway 21:56
With me. 

Rich Bennett 21:58
How? I didn't know that. 

Oh, okay. You 

Jennifer Hathaway 22:02
You 

Rich Bennett 22:02
got. 

Jennifer Hathaway 22:02
got to come on when we do. 

Rich Bennett 22:04
The next mental health. 

Danielle Murphy 22:06
And I have a dad is a narcissist, so I could tell you all 

Rich Bennett 22:08
Oh, 

Danielle Murphy 22:09
stories. 

Rich Bennett 22:09
Holy shit. Jesus. 

Michelle Hayes 22:11
Okay. She's more interesting than. 

Danielle Murphy 22:13
It's just my trauma. It's fine. Mental health. 

Rich Bennett 22:17
lot. 

Michelle Hayes 22:17
Oh, yeah. 

Rich Bennett 22:18
It's not, you know. 

That's a whole another. So. 

Danielle Murphy 22:22
Yeah, that's a. 

Rich Bennett 22:23
Later some. 

Michelle Hayes 22:24
I try to be open, but I also. 

Danielle Murphy 22:27
Very hard to find that balance. 

Michelle Hayes 22:28
It's 

Danielle Murphy 22:29
of 

Michelle Hayes 22:29
hard to find the. 

Danielle Murphy 22:29
Factionalism and. 

Michelle Hayes 22:30
Yeah, because. 

Rich Bennett 22:32
Sometimes you're afraid it might drive people away, too. 

Michelle Hayes 22:34
I'm not worried about that. 

Danielle Murphy 22:36
So I stopped worrying about that. All the right people came. 

Jennifer Hathaway 22:39
Yeah. You. 

Rich Bennett 22:40
No, you're. No, you're right. I'm. 

Danielle Murphy 22:41
I'm saying. 

Rich Bennett 22:42
For you. Open up. 

Danielle Murphy 22:44
Oh, yeah. 

Rich Bennett 22:44
I know when I opened up about my stuff. Yeah. 

Danielle Murphy 22:46
Oh, When I first started, I was like, I need to be like everyone else. I need to look super professional. And it's just like I'm a mom with three kids. I don't have time to look professional all the time, but this is real. And 

Michelle Hayes 22:57
And 

Danielle Murphy 22:57
that's. 

Michelle Hayes 22:57
that's what. 

Grace Vohs 22:57
People 

Rich Bennett 22:58
You're. 

Grace Vohs 22:58
yourself. 

Jennifer Hathaway 22:59
Reach out to me and say 

Danielle Murphy 22:59
Say I. 

Jennifer Hathaway 23:00
I connected with your contact. 

Danielle Murphy 23:02
And that is. That's my job. That's. 

Michelle Hayes 23:04
Yeah, I think it's a balance. I really, really do. Because like, like I said, my kid, I love him to death. I really. He's a teenage boy. Reggie, you've met him. He's gotten more teenager. Honestly, I just that's what I'm going to say. For those of us with teenagers around us, we know. We understand. 

Rich Bennett 23:24
And when they get in their twenties achieve. 

Michelle Hayes 23:26
Thirties are even worse. 

Rich Bennett 23:29
My son that my son. 

Danielle Murphy 23:30
We're six. 

Michelle Hayes 23:33
Oh, that's so fine. 

Danielle Murphy 23:35
My kids. Six and eight. 

Rich Bennett 23:37
Oh, I. 

Michelle Hayes 23:37
So they still like you? 

Danielle Murphy 23:38
Oh, they. They're obsessed. 

Rich Bennett 23:39
They still. 

Danielle Murphy 23:41
If they could crawl back up in the womb. 

Grace Vohs 23:43
Literally they. 

Michelle Hayes 23:44
Oh, see, that's. That's like a couple hours. Like that. And then some other days I'm like, Did you shower or did you brush your teeth? He's like, Oh, and something. 

Danielle Murphy 23:55
Well, my eight year old does. 

Jennifer Hathaway 23:58
Our kids are similar in age. I have a four 

Danielle Murphy 24:01
When 

Jennifer Hathaway 24:01
and 

Danielle Murphy 24:01
I looked. 

Jennifer Hathaway 24:01
five and. 

Danielle Murphy 24:02
Have we not met? I was like, I just moved to Darlington, like. 

Jennifer Hathaway 24:07
And to your point, too, about like weeding out the the people that are not a good fit and attracting the right fit. I feel like then you you attract the clients that. Process. They see you, they see you post and they see like, maybe some real. And you want people that will trust your process because you're. Exactly. And that's what you're like. Don't make my job harder. Like if you're going to just, like, fight me the whole entire way, then 

Danielle Murphy 24:34
Like 

Jennifer Hathaway 24:34
versus 

Danielle Murphy 24:34
you. Hi. 

Jennifer Hathaway 24:34
for. 

Michelle Hayes 24:35
Me or my creativity. Let me be creative. Yeah. 

Jennifer Hathaway 24:39
And then you also want to talk to your client about goals, like what are your goals? Because that might change, you know, how we work together. Like I said, we're an extension of your team. 

Rich Bennett 24:48
They may change over time as. 

Jennifer Hathaway 24:50
Exactly. Exactly. So it's good to always reevaluate that, you know, either quarterly or annually or something like that. But you definitely want to make sure that you're building their plan based on what their needs are, at least at that moment. And my favorite thing that people like to come to everybody, I'm sure you've heard of, I'm sure you've all gotten. Client like this where they want to go viral 

Michelle Hayes 25:16
I hate that. 

Jennifer Hathaway 25:17
or the word viral and are they want to be Tik Tok famous? 

Danielle Murphy 25:22
Put that in my onboarding. I am not promising viral results. 

Jennifer Hathaway 25:26
And if you are. 

Danielle Murphy 25:27
I'm not. 

Jennifer Hathaway 25:28
That you do not trust that agency if 

Danielle Murphy 25:30
You 

Jennifer Hathaway 25:30
you. 

Danielle Murphy 25:30
don't understand social media if you're promising that. 

Jennifer Hathaway 25:33
Yeah. And then, you know, just making sure that they have the maybe like a a I don't even know if they need to have a basic knowledge of all of these things, but they're willing. Yes. You want to yes. You want to manage those expectations and you want to just have somebody that's a, you know, level headed as you guys start working together. And it usually does take a couple of months in your you know, a lot of times they might be reviewing content at first. And then, you know, you start you start to not even even need those like review processes that much. 

Danielle Murphy 26:09
Flow together. 

Jennifer Hathaway 26:10
Right? 

Danielle Murphy 26:10
Year out, the best way to work together like and I feel like so many different clients have different styles of like 

Jennifer Hathaway 26:16
Yeah. 

Danielle Murphy 26:16
how they understand content as well. So like finding the best way to share that with them so they can see it. 

Jennifer Hathaway 26:22
Exactly. 

Rich Bennett 26:24
The other thing of going gold is not always a good thing. If 

Michelle Hayes 26:28
Had. 

Rich Bennett 26:28
my son owned his own business, I guarantee you he would not have that much business anymore because he is going viral. I mean, he's a TikTok influence, sir. Well, you seen his crap. 

Michelle Hayes 26:42
Not on ticked off. 

Rich Bennett 26:43
Oh, you're not okay. 

Michelle Hayes 26:44
So that's one more rehab. I'm interrupting you. We don't mess with Dick talk. It's a personal decision that we've made professionally. We don't touch tik-tok. We don't make anything for TikTok. It is not on our computers. We don't touch it. Create for it, even get near it. We don't touch it. We will do everything else for you. We will do your recruiting. We will do everything else. Facebook and Instagram very heavy LinkedIn, but we will not touch Tik Tok. And it hasn't been a problem. It really hasn't. We 

Jennifer Hathaway 27:16
There's 

Michelle Hayes 27:16
just 

Jennifer Hathaway 27:16
so 

Michelle Hayes 27:17
didn't 

Jennifer Hathaway 27:17
much. 

Michelle Hayes 27:17
want to mess with. 

Danielle Murphy 27:18
But also there's like platform. 

Michelle Hayes 27:20
Would you 

Jennifer Hathaway 27:20
You prefer. 

Michelle Hayes 27:20
prefer? 

Jennifer Hathaway 27:21
And if you. 

Danielle Murphy 27:21
Tick tock. Don't work on tick. 

Rich Bennett 27:23
Exactly. 

Michelle Hayes 27:23
Exactly. 

Danielle Murphy 27:24
And and it's like you have the freedom as a business owner to 

Rich Bennett 27:27
Usually. 

Danielle Murphy 27:27
decide that. Which is what is amazing. 

Yeah. I mean. 

Michelle Hayes 27:31
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 27:32
I mean, you think about it, there are so many different social media platforms out there and more new ones coming up. If you're on every social media platform. 

Danielle Murphy 27:41
Spread too thin. 

Rich Bennett 27:42
Exactly. 

Michelle Hayes 27:43
You're not going to be an expert on anything. 

Rich Bennett 27:44
Now. 

Michelle Hayes 27:45
You know a little bit about our. 

Jennifer Hathaway 27:46
To find your room. 

Michelle Hayes 27:47
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 27:48
And everything is different. You look. I mean, Facebook is really 

Grace Vohs 27:54
Really 

Rich Bennett 27:54
different 

Grace Vohs 27:54
different. 

Rich Bennett 27:54
than Instagram, even though it is 

Jennifer Hathaway 27:56
Same company 

Rich Bennett 27:56
different 

Jennifer Hathaway 27:56
different 

Rich Bennett 27:57
than. 

Jennifer Hathaway 27:57
than. 

Rich Bennett 27:57
Different than 

Danielle Murphy 27:59
Different 

Rich Bennett 27:59
X. 

Danielle Murphy 28:00
vibes, different all. 

Rich Bennett 28:01
Yeah. 

Jennifer Hathaway 28:01
Different tones. 

Rich Bennett 28:02
What's the other one? Blue sky or whatever. 

Jennifer Hathaway 28:04
Mm hmm. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 28:05
Yeah. Which I keep thinking of that commercial blue skies. 

That's all I can think of every time I hear about Blue sky, I think. 

Danielle Murphy 28:14
Maybe they know that. 

Rich Bennett 28:16
I don't. I don't have a clue. 

Jennifer Hathaway 28:18
I signed up for all of them, even though personally, 

Rich Bennett 28:20
Oh, yeah. 

Jennifer Hathaway 28:21
like I would not have any interest. But when were first working with a client or doing that digital audit, it's good to be able to at least have access to all the platforms and see. 

Rich Bennett 28:30
Yeah. 

Jennifer Hathaway 28:30
Doing so like I have to have an account for everything. And we do look at it. But yeah, right now, since tic tac is in that phase and until that is finished, we've, we have clients just pending 

Rich Bennett 28:43
Yeah. 

Jennifer Hathaway 28:43
because we have clients that want to get on tic tac. The other thing about venturing into tic tac is you really have to explain to your your client that there is also a difference between content management and content creation. 

Rich Bennett 28:57
Mm 

Jennifer Hathaway 28:58
So unless you are going to be sending my team the clips that you want built into reels like you are going to have a much larger monthly package if we're sending people to do the recordings. And this is also my favorite too, and people are like, Oh, I want to be on tic tac in this. But then 

Rich Bennett 29:17
hmm. 

Jennifer Hathaway 29:17
when you start, it's almost like trying to find that company. Spokesperson Because then nobody wants to be in the video 

Rich Bennett 29:22
Right. 

Jennifer Hathaway 29:22
like, Well, we can create these videos for you and the videos that you're sending us that list like something similar if nobody wants to be recorded. So we have to like figure out like, okay, what are your goals? What do you want to do? And if this is what you want to do, then this is the track that you have to be on. 

Michelle Hayes 29:38
Or it looks like they filmed it on a potato. 

Rich Bennett 29:41
On What? 

Michelle Hayes 29:41
On a potato. You think a potato takes a good video? No, it does not, sir. 

Rich Bennett 29:47
Grace, are you on? Tick tock. 

Grace Vohs 29:49
I mean, I am, but that's more just like showing, like stuff I've, like, made. 

Rich Bennett 29:54
You're goofy, 

Grace Vohs 29:54
Ah, no, no, no. Like crafts, like, stuff like that. Because the thing about Tik tok is, um, if you don't have those, like, set skills to almost be a, not just a social media person, but like a videographer. Like, I have enough trouble framing the things I'm creating just for fun. I mean, 

Rich Bennett 30:13
right? 

Grace Vohs 30:13
they're not, they're just for me, honestly. Um, but if you're trying to post outside of that in a different kind of way as like to promote yourself, that's a completely different game for enjoyment is one thing. But when you're sending things out into the public and trying to keep that like consistent with your other platforms and like Michelle said, not look like it's filmed on a potato or like you're having a seizure behind the camera or something like that, like it's an investment to try and really frame yourself in a specific way and get the video editing and all of that kind of stuff. It's a different game. 

Rich Bennett 30:49
Oh, I know. 

Jennifer Hathaway 30:51
Now if you're. 

Michelle Hayes 30:51
Your service provider. 

Jennifer Hathaway 30:52
have to be exact. 

Danielle Murphy 30:54
Like if you're here. Not just doing someone's hair you are having to fill. Process 

Michelle Hayes 30:59
You. 

Danielle Murphy 30:59
to. 

Jennifer Hathaway 30:59
Exactly. 

Danielle Murphy 31:00
And it's like it's wild to me that so. 

Jennifer Hathaway 31:03
Social media has changed. 

Danielle Murphy 31:05
So many different industries in such a crazy way. 

Rich Bennett 31:09
I can never make any money if I took videos of me doing. 

Jennifer Hathaway 31:13
And then. 

Danielle Murphy 31:14
Well, you could do a whole time lapse of, like your your hair growth over the whole year. Like, take a clip and 

Jennifer Hathaway 31:20
It 

Danielle Murphy 31:20
then. 

Jennifer Hathaway 31:20
is a process, but like over a year, like you're when you're the viewer and you're seeing it all come together, it's almost like somebody that loves house remodeling, but they're watching an HD TV show like that, that whole episode, like you're not going to redo your whole kitchen in 30 minutes. 

Rich Bennett 31:35
Right. 

Jennifer Hathaway 31:36
And it's kind of the same way in social media where the word this is a red flag word right here, quick and just put up a quick post or a quick a quick reel, a quick. There's no there's nothing quick about anything 

Michelle Hayes 31:50
Just pop other posts? No. 

Jennifer Hathaway 31:53
like. 

Michelle Hayes 31:54
Do you understand the popping up of a post? Takes me at least 30 minutes to design for you, and then I have to make sure it's branded properly. Has the right padding around it makes it look good. And then what do you want it to say again? Like, just. 

Jennifer Hathaway 32:11
So many little things. And then and then it never fails that if you do do the run around and get a post you know a very. Or something like that for a client. Then. Then. Then the messages come in later about, Oh, that person's not here anymore, or this or that, or we, we changed the hours to this and then you're, you're going back to things that would have already been worked out had you been like creating the content like in your normal workflow. 

Michelle Hayes 32:40
And it looks terrible when you go back in. 

Jennifer Hathaway 32:42
It. I. 

Michelle Hayes 32:43
Like you can see it. I mean, is it edited? Edge is that edited bothers me so. Maybe it's just a me thing, but to me it's like, Oh my God, I had. It makes me very sad. Grace can tell you there's a lot of colorful language in my office. There's a lot I 

Jennifer Hathaway 33:03
I'm 

Michelle Hayes 33:03
need. 

Jennifer Hathaway 33:03
also very thankful, though, for the option to be able to go through an edit because sometimes you might have something that gets approved by one person and then it wasn't approved by somebody else. That's also all on their end. Like, you're just like, okay, I just need the final. 

Michelle Hayes 33:17
I. 

Rich Bennett 33:17
I love the edit button. And here's why. Because my mother in law will point out to me right away if I misspelled something or the grammar is wrong, that edit button comes in handy. For me. 

Well, yeah, because you can edit your pollution fix. 

Danielle Murphy 33:33
She was saying. Like to 

Michelle Hayes 33:35
I 

Danielle Murphy 33:35
see 

Michelle Hayes 33:35
don't. 

Danielle Murphy 33:35
that it's been edited by. 

Rich Bennett 33:37
Would I still edit it? 

Michelle Hayes 33:38
Even. 

Danielle Murphy 33:38
I know. She's just saying that was 

Michelle Hayes 33:40
No, 

Danielle Murphy 33:40
her. 

Michelle Hayes 33:40
it might. 

Rich Bennett 33:40
I know how 

Michelle Hayes 33:41
Thank. 

Rich Bennett 33:41
Michelle is. Yeah. Couple of things I know that she hates, and I've been trying to work on this. 

The Seymour. 

Michelle Hayes 33:49
Oh, that Seymour button is the death. 

Grace Vohs 33:51
That one's really. 

Michelle Hayes 33:52
Oh, that's like Black Death. No. 

Rich Bennett 33:55
I mean, 

Michelle Hayes 33:56
Who's 

Rich Bennett 33:56
was the. 

Michelle Hayes 33:56
the other one? 

Rich Bennett 34:00
Oh. 

Michelle Hayes 34:00
Dogs. 

Rich Bennett 34:01
Well, no. And video videos while you're sitting down, I think you said. 

Michelle Hayes 34:06
What? 

Rich Bennett 34:07
Don't ever take 

Grace Vohs 34:08
You 

Rich Bennett 34:08
it. 

Michelle Hayes 34:08
You 

Grace Vohs 34:08
used. 

Michelle Hayes 34:09
know. 

Rich Bennett 34:10
Did you say that? Who said that? 

Michelle Hayes 34:12
I don't know. 

Rich Bennett 34:16
Do I think it's the dog that. 

Michelle Hayes 34:17
I don't like videos that have the. 

Grace Vohs 34:19
The play button in the 

Michelle Hayes 34:19
The 

Grace Vohs 34:20
first. 

Michelle Hayes 34:20
first frame of the video when you're going to put it on Facebook and it's got a play button like that's there from Facebook. 

Grace Vohs 34:26
Hmm. 

Rich Bennett 34:27
I thought they played automatically. 

Michelle Hayes 34:30
Some of them do. Depends on how you're viewing it. 

Rich Bennett 34:34
Okay. 

Danielle Murphy 34:35
Do you all put like a certain amount of time that people have to work with you? Because for me, I have had to put three months because I'm not putting in the work for 

Rich Bennett 34:48
That's. 

Danielle Murphy 34:48
and in the. 

Rich Bennett 34:49
That's. 

Danielle Murphy 34:50
People would try to do month to month. And because I was new, I was like, I'm trying to work with you. I will do it. I quickly learned, Don't do that. But I didn't know. 

Grace Vohs 35:00
You guys had. 

Danielle Murphy 35:00
Longer, like six. 

Grace Vohs 35:01
Six months. 

Michelle Hayes 35:02
Our. 

Grace Vohs 35:02
As of the year. 

Jennifer Hathaway 35:03
Most of our clients are a year. However, like we have some clients though, like when we did the Social media management for Rage Against Addiction for that walk like it was three months or something. 

Danielle Murphy 35:15
Oh, because it's a certain event. 

Jennifer Hathaway 35:16
Right. 

Danielle Murphy 35:17
You. 

Grace Vohs 35:17
Yeah. 

Jennifer Hathaway 35:17
Leading up to an event. 

Grace Vohs 35:18
Yeah. Usually it's like six. 

Jennifer Hathaway 35:19
Monster 12 months. But a lot of my clients have been there. Just annual contracts. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 35:25
One of the. 

Grace Vohs 35:26
First. 

Rich Bennett 35:26
things I was taught and I've been in. 

In March. Ties have for over 35 years that Jesus. 

Michelle Hayes 35:36
Why? You're my mentor. 

Rich Bennett 35:37
But one of the first. 

Michelle Hayes 35:39
We were. 

Rich Bennett 35:41
Especially when I was in radio. You're not going to see. 

Grace Vohs 35:46
Any results. 

Rich Bennett 35:49
Until at least three months. So you should always have it should always be at least a minimum of. 

Jennifer Hathaway 35:55
And I would say it could even be six, 

Rich Bennett 35:57
Yeah. 

Jennifer Hathaway 35:57
depending on. 

Rich Bennett 35:57
Yeah. Because things have changed now. Now, as I mean, keep in mind. 

Michelle Hayes 36:02
When I. 

Rich Bennett 36:04
My God, when I got to social media, who started? It was basically print, radio, a TV. 

Danielle Murphy 36:11
Radio show for his business. 

Rich Bennett 36:13
It's God. Talk about 

Grace Vohs 36:15
You're 

Rich Bennett 36:15
changes. 

Grace Vohs 36:15
always. 

Rich Bennett 36:17
But no, we were always taught taught that. And it makes sense. You're you can have a campaign run it for one month. 

Michelle Hayes 36:25
Expect to 

Rich Bennett 36:25
To 

Michelle Hayes 36:25
see. 

Rich Bennett 36:25
see results, right to. Well on some things again. And then like our Lions Club, we. 

Jennifer Hathaway 36:31
We made our. 

Rich Bennett 36:31
Luminaires. So Iran is 55 days Iran. I did some geo targeting and that worked out great. But I focused on just the zip code here. And I think the arc of my God are a. 

Ridiculous. Cost me $275 and we made over $3,000. 

Jennifer Hathaway 36:55
Oh, that's great. 

Rich Bennett 36:56
Yeah. So. 

Danielle Murphy 36:57
Don't even mess with. And. 

Rich Bennett 36:58
Oh, well. 

Danielle Murphy 37:00
I feel like it is a. Beast that scares me. And I don't want to. 

Rich Bennett 37:05
Advertising campaign. Every time. 

Danielle Murphy 37:08
But I know the value. 

Rich Bennett 37:10
Yeah, Advertising can be tricky. We're not. I love writing. Copy. 

Michelle Hayes 37:15
I'm. 

Rich Bennett 37:16
I mean, that's what I was taught when I was in grade. 

Michelle Hayes 37:17
Don't say that around me. Cause I'll start sending you stuff. Write copy for this or a copy for this? No, 

Rich Bennett 37:24
I'm 

Michelle Hayes 37:24
I meant 

Rich Bennett 37:24
in for, 

Michelle Hayes 37:24
for. 

Rich Bennett 37:24
like. 

Grace Vohs 37:24
Radio. If 

Michelle Hayes 37:26
If 

Grace Vohs 37:27
you. 

Michelle Hayes 37:27
you want to write. I 

Rich Bennett 37:27
Or 

Michelle Hayes 37:27
got 

Rich Bennett 37:28
for 

Michelle Hayes 37:28
all kinds. 

Rich Bennett 37:28
the podcast. 

Grace Vohs 37:29
Do. 

Michelle Hayes 37:29
Let. 

Rich Bennett 37:29
Yeah, but when he quit, I mean, I was surprised with that Facebook. I don't like doing Facebook ads. 

Michelle Hayes 37:35
Because. 

Jennifer Hathaway 37:35
Because it's. 

Rich Bennett 37:36
I 

Grace Vohs 37:36
I mean 

Rich Bennett 37:37
mean, 

Grace Vohs 37:37
that. 

Rich Bennett 37:37
that was targeted to me. I understand why that. 

Grace Vohs 37:40
Yes, I. 

Jennifer Hathaway 37:40
I think if 

Danielle Murphy 37:41
If 

Jennifer Hathaway 37:41
you. 

Danielle Murphy 37:41
you have if you have the knowledge to know exactly how to target it, it 

Rich Bennett 37:44
Yeah. 

Danielle Murphy 37:45
very. But since I don't, I'm like, I'm not going to offer that to you. 

Grace Vohs 37:50
Because. 

Danielle Murphy 37:50
Because some people try to push. 

Jennifer Hathaway 37:51
Me to do it. And I'm. 

Danielle Murphy 37:52
I'm like, I I'm not going to just 

Rich Bennett 37:54
It's. 

Danielle Murphy 37:54
slap it up there. 

Jennifer Hathaway 37:55
Sometimes, though, it also takes that, you know, a few months to kind of learn that client, because what we do is like we usually have a recommended monthly budget for for every client. And I mean, we have one client that they're like $40 a month that is the most that we want to play. And then we have another that's like $100 a month. So every month we change what might be recommended. Like maybe they have an upcoming event and we suggest putting that money towards boosting posts that are just for that event or if they're if they don't have anything going up, but they still want to target like people in their area, we might change it to people in their area. We put $100 towards whatever post was performing the best, so we halfway through the month I'll look and I'll say, Oh my gosh, this person was doing really well organically, so let's put some money behind it and see how it does. But I think that it just depends on the client and then what their goals are. How many times have you? 

Rich Bennett 38:48
The clients that you do an advertising for, not the market, but the average. 

And they say they want to do like 40. 

Grace Vohs 38:57
If they advertise. 

Rich Bennett 38:58
Ties is good. You're you're getting money back, which means you should increase that. Advertise. Have fun. But how many clients have you had to wear? Even though he has done good, he still owning. 

Jennifer Hathaway 39:11
I think we've never really had anybody that. We always see how each pose like perform. 

Rich Bennett 39:19
Hmm. 

Jennifer Hathaway 39:20
It's usually 

Rich Bennett 39:20
Right. 

Jennifer Hathaway 39:20
something very specific, like if we have one like let's see, one client is a venue. So they're there judging, like if it's working by if they've booked 

Rich Bennett 39:32
Right. 

Jennifer Hathaway 39:32
anything. So it's sometimes it's, it depends on what their goals are. Again, like another client, they're not really selling anything. They're looking for 

engagement and followers. And because it's a project. So where it's basically the page that we're managing is underneath of like a city run page. But this is a specific project. So they're not really selling anything and they have to be accessible to everybody. So they're judging based on how like, what's the engagement look like? Is the community getting involved? Are the likes and followers are they is that climbing? So sometimes if we put, you know, $100 around a post that's performing really well, we might get more followers at the end of that month. 

Rich Bennett 40:26
Right. And good. 

Jennifer Hathaway 40:27
So everybody is a little different. 

Danielle Murphy 40:29
I had a client who was a psychiatrist and he, like, boosted like you said. Graham certain posts, but since he knew I was posting and it was consistent, it paid off because there was content there for people to. 

Jennifer Hathaway 40:47
Exactly. 

Danielle Murphy 40:47
Not just the boosted post, like not just the ad. 

Jennifer Hathaway 40:51
Right. 

Michelle Hayes 40:52
So I think. 

Jennifer Hathaway 40:52
Yes. 

Danielle Murphy 40:53
On Instagram. I saw. Really? 

Jennifer Hathaway 40:55
Right. It helps. Being consistent Consistency is a huge word that we talk about a lot because and also to you, I think in 2025, a lot of it is, yes, consistent, but also quality. Like you, you know, don't waste your time putting up a post just to put up a post like think it through and that's what we're here for. We can help you. Like, what's what is your message? And put up your best message so that way people are it's good to have like some authentic and, you know, fun posts in between. It's a good mix. But then you also have to go back and see what's been working and what hasn't been working. 

Rich Bennett 41:31
Right. And it's not for every business either. I mean, not. 

Michelle Hayes 41:34
Now. 

Rich Bennett 41:35
Not every business needs to be on social media. And I think of my brother in law's business. You know, he's got a towing company. He doesn't. 

Jennifer Hathaway 41:43
also depends on. He's probably established. 

Rich Bennett 41:46
Oh, I. 

Jennifer Hathaway 41:47
For other business. 

Rich Bennett 41:47
Well, yeah, you could say that. Yeah. He's a stable. 

Jennifer Hathaway 41:49
Some I mean, I've heard of a lot of younger credit. You might be able to weigh in on this. A lot of people who are younger use Facebook more as like the Yellow Pages. So 

Rich Bennett 41:58
Yeah. 

Jennifer Hathaway 41:58
it is important for them to have a page there just so because they're referring to Facebook sometimes over Google, like if. 

Rich Bennett 42:06
Yeah. 

Danielle Murphy 42:07
Are where people go to find service providers. If you are not being recommended in the comment section you are missing out on. 

Rich Bennett 42:14
Yeah. 

Michelle Hayes 42:16
My 

Danielle Murphy 42:16
Michael, 

Michelle Hayes 42:16
clients 

Danielle Murphy 42:16
Why 

Michelle Hayes 42:16
will be like, 

Danielle Murphy 42:17
are you. 

Michelle Hayes 42:17
Why? 

Danielle Murphy 42:17
are you. 

Grace Vohs 42:17
You mean that? 

Danielle Murphy 42:18
Post. I'm not a. 

Jennifer Hathaway 42:18
Bill will That day. 

Danielle Murphy 42:19
I don't care. 

Jennifer Hathaway 42:20
It's Putting your business name. 

Danielle Murphy 42:21
I'm in the. People. 

Jennifer Hathaway 42:23
Right. 

Danielle Murphy 42:23
They do. They go in the comments, they click on your page. It's just giving yourself another chance. 

Michelle Hayes 42:29
Yeah. 

Danielle Murphy 42:29
It's not necessary. But if it leads to more, why not? 

Jennifer Hathaway 42:34
People also will go back to people that know how to use social media. We'll go back into those advice groups and they can search so that they don't. And some people don't like to make their own posts and they can just go back and put, you know, hairstylists and then they can go through that other person's page and. 

Michelle Hayes 42:49
Someone 

Grace Vohs 42:50
Reach 

Michelle Hayes 42:50
reached 

Grace Vohs 42:50
out 

Michelle Hayes 42:50
out 

Grace Vohs 42:51
to. 

Michelle Hayes 42:51
to. 

Danielle Murphy 42:51
And she won't care if I share because she's my best friend now. She is a boat. 

Jennifer Hathaway 42:55
Talk. 

Danielle Murphy 42:56
And about. Actor like does both. 

Rich Bennett 43:00
Yeah. Okay. 

Danielle Murphy 43:01
All the aesthetics. And she said she has. 

Grace Vohs 43:03
You look so interested. 

Danielle Murphy 43:04
Reach out who Who's never coming to her before. Her partner reached out by a 15. Gift. 

Jennifer Hathaway 43:12
Hard. 

Danielle Murphy 43:12
And said that my wife 

Michelle Hayes 43:13
I will 

Danielle Murphy 43:13
will not 

Michelle Hayes 43:14
not 

Danielle Murphy 43:14
go 

Michelle Hayes 43:14
go 

Danielle Murphy 43:14
to 

Michelle Hayes 43:14
to any. 

Danielle Murphy 43:14
any. 

Jennifer Hathaway 43:14
Anyone else. 

Danielle Murphy 43:15
Cause she's retired. So many times on Facebook. And she's never been in but purchased a 1500 dollars gift card. That's huge. Yeah, let's 

Jennifer Hathaway 43:24
Yeah 

Danielle Murphy 43:24
hear. 

Jennifer Hathaway 43:25
that stuff last shows the. 

Danielle Murphy 43:26
Speaks volumes of the Facebook group. The groups are a gold mine. 

Rich Bennett 43:30
Senate. Chisholm, my spy. Now I keep just. I've taken a knee. 

Danielle Murphy 43:35
Oh, I got Botox. My. My lines don't move all. 

Rich Bennett 43:39
Your lines. 

Danielle Murphy 43:40
Here are my wrinkles. 

Rich Bennett 43:43
Do they make a cream for that? 

Danielle Murphy 43:44
No. 

Rich Bennett 43:45
Oh, okay. 

Look, Danielle, let me tell you something. This is something. 

Danielle Murphy 43:50
I get 

Jennifer Hathaway 43:51
Get 

Danielle Murphy 43:51
a. 

Jennifer Hathaway 43:51
it for free. 

Rich Bennett 43:52
This. 

Jennifer Hathaway 43:54
Then I might be interested 

Danielle Murphy 43:56
Yeah, I 

Jennifer Hathaway 43:56
in 

Danielle Murphy 43:56
get. 

Jennifer Hathaway 43:56
an area I've never. 

Danielle Murphy 43:57
Ever 

Jennifer Hathaway 43:57
paid. 

Danielle Murphy 43:57
paid 

Rich Bennett 43:57
They're 

Danielle Murphy 43:57
for 

Rich Bennett 43:57
not 

Danielle Murphy 43:58
it. 

Rich Bennett 43:58
wrinkles, their wise lies, their wisdom. 

Jennifer Hathaway 44:01
You know. 

Danielle Murphy 44:03
Cellphone. What's wrong with that? 

Rich Bennett 44:05
Go tell about your show, about how wise you are. I'm a white. somebody. 

Michelle Hayes 44:10
Okay. 

Jennifer Hathaway 44:10
Okay. 

Michelle Hayes 44:10
I'm sorry, but it. Color your hair, Color your hair if you want 

Rich Bennett 44:13
I 

Michelle Hayes 44:13
to. 

Rich Bennett 44:13
can't call her my hair. 

Michelle Hayes 44:15
Well, I'm sorry 

Grace Vohs 44:16
People 

Michelle Hayes 44:16
you feel 

Grace Vohs 44:16
get. 

Michelle Hayes 44:16
victimized. 

Grace Vohs 44:17
People get. 

Michelle Hayes 44:17
your Eyebrows get a tattoo. It's the same thing. 

Rich Bennett 44:20
I think my. 

Danielle Murphy 44:21
Do A whole like, hair video of like his hair the whole year and just put it all together at the. 

Grace Vohs 44:25
Like a time lapse. 

Danielle Murphy 44:27
Yes, the time lapse. 

Grace Vohs 44:28
Image 

Danielle Murphy 44:29
Yes. 

Grace Vohs 44:29
more 

Michelle Hayes 44:30
With 

Grace Vohs 44:30
mesh 

Michelle Hayes 44:30
fun 

Grace Vohs 44:30
service 

Michelle Hayes 44:30
hair 

Grace Vohs 44:30
together. 

Michelle Hayes 44:30
like purple. 

Rich Bennett 44:32
Look, I can't go to her in my head like I used to. I 

Michelle Hayes 44:36
Okay, 

Rich Bennett 44:36
just have. 

Michelle Hayes 44:36
we can do your mustache, but. 

Rich Bennett 44:37
But yeah, it grew faster on my face. 

Michelle Hayes 44:40
So we'll 

Jennifer Hathaway 44:40
We'll 

Michelle Hayes 44:40
do 

Jennifer Hathaway 44:40
do the. 

Michelle Hayes 44:40
the Eyebrows. And this. 

Rich Bennett 44:42
Yes. 

Danielle Murphy 44:43
So as my. 

Rich Bennett 44:47
Oh, he had to carry that heavy 

Danielle Murphy 44:49
In Hawaii. 

Rich Bennett 44:49
son of a bitch. 

Danielle Murphy 44:51
Yeah. He's a big boy. 

Rich Bennett 44:52
Made. 

You're listening in on the conversations with Rich Bennett. We'll be right back. 

I want to take a moment to talk about something really exciting. See, we love partnering with reputable businesses, companies that are making a difference, providing top notch services and building trust in their communities. And if that sounds like you, I want to invite you to become a sponsor sponsoring the podcast. And Harvard Kennedy Living isn't just about advertising. It's about real connections. You'll get premium exposure across our podcast websites and social media, putting your brain in front of an engaged, loyal audience. And here's the best part. Right now, we have limited sponsorship spots available for the year. And if you pay annually, you'll get 

25% off. You heard me right. 25% of. And you're going to love this even more. That rate is locked in for the lifetime of your sponsorship. So even if those levels go up five, ten years from now, you're paying what you pay now. That's it. So if you're looking for a strategic way to grow your business and reach the right people, let's talk. Email me at Rich Bennett at Dan Ben dot com. That's D. A and B and. And let's make 2025 an unforgettable year for your brand and into the future. 

Michelle Hayes 46:28
Back to Facebook. I think another thing we need to not be scared of as marketers and, you know. Don't be afraid to be alarming because I had a client. And they were jacked. Like, full on. Everything sucked. 

Rich Bennett 46:52
You said jacked. 

Danielle Murphy 46:53
Yeah, I. 

Rich Bennett 46:54
I'm 

Jennifer Hathaway 46:54
I know, 

Rich Bennett 46:54
thinking 

Jennifer Hathaway 46:54
I. 

Rich Bennett 46:54
like, 

Michelle Hayes 46:55
Like 

Rich Bennett 46:55
Yeah. 

Michelle Hayes 46:55
it was all jacked up like. 

Rich Bennett 46:56
You get like, muscular. 

Danielle Murphy 46:58
Counts were messed up. 

Michelle Hayes 46:59
It was all messed up. 

Danielle Murphy 47:00
Okay. Okay. 

Michelle Hayes 47:01
Website. 

Jennifer Hathaway 47:02
So jacked 

Michelle Hayes 47:03
Facebook. 

Jennifer Hathaway 47:03
was the nice word for word for. 

Michelle Hayes 47:06
After. Oh, it was so bad. And no one knew who had access to what. 

Jennifer Hathaway 47:11
Oh, yeah. 

Michelle Hayes 47:11
So that was a whole nother problem. It had been. No, nobody has that. So the former marketing company had. 

Danielle Murphy 47:20
No, no. 

Michelle Hayes 47:20
They were in California 

and they had actually outsourced to the Philippines. So nothing was being done appropriately. And I won't name names. 

Rich Bennett 47:36
From the Philippines to. 

Michelle Hayes 47:37
It was awful. It was truly terrible. They were posting about ten times a day on Facebook. Which is almost as detrimental as not posting. It was bad. 

Rich Bennett 47:47
Listen to. 

Michelle Hayes 47:47
No one. 

Jennifer Hathaway 47:48
Unless you're like. Forbes 

Michelle Hayes 47:50
No 

Jennifer Hathaway 47:50
The 

Michelle Hayes 47:50
one was 

Jennifer Hathaway 47:51
reason? 

Michelle Hayes 47:51
commenting. There was no interaction at all except for like, spammers. 

Jennifer Hathaway 47:57
Yeah. 

Michelle Hayes 47:58
It was bad. It was. 

Jennifer Hathaway 47:59
It is probably all like a I looking. 

Michelle Hayes 48:02
Oh, it was. I mean, it's all the people like, you know, all the emojis. And then, like, either the massive paragraphs of like. You know, evangelists this big, which, you know, is I and I mean, it was it was so like we joke about it now. We we really do, but. Their site was broken, Catholics didn't work. Half the pages weren't visible. 

So we attempted to play nice and playing nice with the old company didn't work. It was supposed to be a site migration. It wound up being a full rebuild. 

Danielle Murphy 48:36
You wouldn't. 

Michelle Hayes 48:37
They wouldn't. So the way that contract worked, they didn't have most of their passwords and everything belonged to the former company the way the contract was written. So all the content, all the hosting, everything belonged to the former company, which personally I think is terrible. 

Rich Bennett 48:54
lot 

Danielle Murphy 48:55
Since. 

Rich Bennett 48:55
of. 

Michelle Hayes 48:55
So 

Grace Vohs 48:55
So. 

Michelle Hayes 48:56
bad. No, no. And so one of our big things with that contract was we made sure we put it in there. And so there like, there's that poor contract, that company has PTSD from, like, what they were put 

Danielle Murphy 49:07
I 

Michelle Hayes 49:07
through. 

Danielle Murphy 49:07
Good to. 

Michelle Hayes 49:08
So we were like, No, once we build this, this is going to be all yours. Like, well. Host It will run, It will update it. 

Danielle Murphy 49:16
And the fact they trusted you after what they had just gone through speaks volumes 

Michelle Hayes 49:20
They. 

Danielle Murphy 49:20
about you. 

Michelle Hayes 49:21
And they're so nice. I mean, they really, really are. But they and and it was a medical. Business. 

Danielle Murphy 49:29
Mm hmm. 

Michelle Hayes 49:29
Which they're even harder to work with. Honestly, they're probably the most difficult to work with just because you have to know some of the language. But they're headshots. All their foreheads were cut off. 

They hadn't. They were. 

Rich Bennett 49:42
Because they didn't get Botox. 

Michelle Hayes 49:44
No. 

Danielle Murphy 49:45
About their foreheads. See, it's a real thing. 

Michelle Hayes 49:48
All looked balls. Like they were like 15 years old. And some of them you wouldn't know the picture to the person because it was. 20 years ago and it was so awful. And so we were very happy to be able to provide it for them. We went out, we took out shots and it's been a process, but we had to take them and we took over. I will never forget on Halloween. And I was 

Danielle Murphy 50:17
The 

Michelle Hayes 50:17
like. 

Danielle Murphy 50:17
scariest thing you've ever seen. 

Michelle Hayes 50:19
It was so bad and so. Because I have the wonderful opportunity not to be alone. My husband's my co-founder. Yeah, it's amazing. I say don't work with your spouse because it is a true test of marriage. We've been married for a year together for like seven. He's never wanted 

Grace Vohs 50:40
I'm 

Michelle Hayes 50:40
to 

Grace Vohs 50:40
sorry. 

Michelle Hayes 50:40
kill me more, and I've never want to kill him more. But I also have never loved him more. He spent all day yesterday building my office and IKEA furniture, which I'm sorry, but that's a whole level of hell. 

I'm Rich Lowry because he knows him. And so. Like he looked at the post and he was like, Are you sure? Because instead of the whites and blues and very, very sterile, we had spoken with the client about warming it up. Put your face out there. Show him you're human. Like you're a doctor's office. You're not a morgue. Come on, let's make it fun. So I put gnomes on their Halloween poles. And it was fun. I like those little costumes. I love gnomes. And they approved it. They're like, Yeah, we like this. Like, okay, cool. So it went up. So there is a very stark like, this is the old, this is the new and. 

Danielle Murphy 51:38
Taking a screenshot of the old grid with the new 

Jennifer Hathaway 51:41
Yes. 

Danielle Murphy 51:41
one. 

Michelle Hayes 51:41
It's so bad. 

Jennifer Hathaway 51:42
There is. 

Danielle Murphy 51:43
That is my favorite thing. 

Michelle Hayes 51:45
So like if. I mean, you really put two and two together. If you go on our site and like, Oh, I don't think they're on our site yet. We're about to relaunch a new site, too. For us, it's been a lot of behind the scenes stuff going on, going on in our lives. 

Danielle Murphy 51:59
I'm always doing everyone else. 

Jennifer Hathaway 52:00
Yes, 

Michelle Hayes 52:01
That is 

Jennifer Hathaway 52:01
100%. 

Michelle Hayes 52:01
hard. That is hard. 

Jennifer Hathaway 52:03
And 

Danielle Murphy 52:03
And 

Jennifer Hathaway 52:04
I 

Danielle Murphy 52:04
I have 

Jennifer Hathaway 52:04
feel 

Danielle Murphy 52:04
so 

Jennifer Hathaway 52:04
that. 

Danielle Murphy 52:04
many cute ideas for my content, but I always use it for my client. 

Michelle Hayes 52:09
I have to make. And that's why we got the. I like stuff. In the like, I like swag. I really do. It's one of my favorite things about my husband's company. 

Rich Bennett 52:19
Hard marketing. 

Michelle Hayes 52:20
I love swag. So we got notebooks. We have pens, you're bags. And I was like, I have to make a to do list every day. And I told Grace this was 

Rich Bennett 52:28
Funny, 

Michelle Hayes 52:28
a strategy 

Rich Bennett 52:28
I. 

Michelle Hayes 52:29
I had for my old. I did one order to make sure it came out perfect before you got the perfect run. Lucky I didn't get you a shirt because it didn't come out perfect. 

Jennifer Hathaway 52:40
But. 

Michelle Hayes 52:41
Good grief. When did you get the 100%? Beautiful. Can 

I make a to list every morning? And sometimes it starts from the night before because they didn't get it all done on Monday. So it has to get done on Tuesday. And then actually my mother in law, she works for freedom and she's I forget her new title, but she's like a bigwig over there. And she said, I have a deadline day. I have a dead day. And that's the day where that whole list and she does it, I think once every two weeks, that whole list has to get done. I love her. Grace loves her. I love that she knows her because she's like, I get where you see, like. 

Danielle Murphy 53:20
See, this is why I like these conversations, because, like, I always learn more ways because, like, my ADHD brain just doesn't. I have to 

Grace Vohs 53:28
To 

Michelle Hayes 53:28
To 

Danielle Murphy 53:28
find. 

Grace Vohs 53:28
find. 

Michelle Hayes 53:29
Creative ways. 

Danielle Murphy 53:29
But giving myself a deadline is like, okay, it 

Jennifer Hathaway 53:33
It 

Danielle Murphy 53:33
has 

Jennifer Hathaway 53:33
has. 

Danielle Murphy 53:33
to be done that day. Like you, 

Rich Bennett 53:34
Counter. 

Danielle Murphy 53:34
it's like school. Like it has to. 

Rich Bennett 53:36
Now, I think all 

Michelle Hayes 53:37
Less. 

Rich Bennett 53:37
of the Internet. 

Michelle Hayes 53:38
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 53:39
Let's definitely help. 

Michelle Hayes 53:39
And I like the list because they don't have to go one, two, three, four or five because I get bored. I don't have ADHD. 

Danielle Murphy 53:45
Sobel 

Michelle Hayes 53:45
Eight Anxiety and depression. And so I'll get super depressed and anxious. If I look at this massive 

Danielle Murphy 53:51
Yes. 

Michelle Hayes 53:51
two page list that I have to get done. And so I'll be like, Oh, well, that one's fine. So I'll do that one. And then if I have more coffee and I'm like, okay, I'm chilled out. Was on. I've got my heating pad on my back like I'm good. I'm going to focus and do the boring thing or I'm going to write those two pages of copy or I'm going to do this or I'm going to tackle that deck that I really don't want to write. And that's it's easier to kind of mix and match of what I'm going to do. And then if I get to my dad day, I know that's the day where at the end of the day I'm going to have personally, for me it's a bottle of wine, but it could be, you know, that expensive hot chocolate. It could be, I think the other day, because I've been cutting back because of some medical issues. It was a nice little strawberry lime probiotic drink that I put in a wine glass and I felt special. And that was my that was my okay, I'm unwinding because I got the whole thing done. And I had some chocolate and I was like, This is great, but you have that good day and you get you have to reward yourself at the end of it. You have to. 

Rich Bennett 54:50
Oh, back up, back up a minute. When you were talking about the website and the faces, the heads cut off and all of that. And this And this is where under know Jennifer can really chime in on this when it when it comes to business owners especially, why is it that they are afraid to put their face out there, you you know, and get their professional headshots like what Jennifer does? I never understand people. You you're. 

Grace Vohs 55:18
Business. 

Rich Bennett 55:19
Is 

Michelle Hayes 55:20
Your 

Rich Bennett 55:20
your. 

Michelle Hayes 55:20
brain. 

Rich Bennett 55:21
You need to put your face out there. 

Michelle Hayes 55:23
I can tell you what I've heard. We had I said it was a medical office of quite a few providers, and we had providers come to us and say, I'm not doing this. I'm not getting an updated headshot. And of course, they looked very different. I'll leave it up to public opinion, whether it's bad or good in contrast to the new headshots. 

Rich Bennett 55:44
But again, even with that. 

Michelle Hayes 55:46
They don't. 

Rich Bennett 55:47
But they 

Michelle Hayes 55:47
They 

Rich Bennett 55:47
need 

Michelle Hayes 55:47
need 

Rich Bennett 55:48
to. 

Michelle Hayes 55:48
to 

Rich Bennett 55:48
And the thing is. 

Michelle Hayes 55:49
look. But the 

Rich Bennett 55:49
You 

Michelle Hayes 55:49
whole. 

Rich Bennett 55:50
should get. How often should you get a new headshot? 

Jennifer Hathaway 55:53
I would probably say some people like to freshen it up every year, some people every five years, every ten. I think sometimes if you get into a routine and you freshen it up more often, 

Danielle Murphy 56:04
You 

Jennifer Hathaway 56:04
be 

Danielle Murphy 56:04
like. How? 

Jennifer Hathaway 56:05
Yeah, it becomes 

Michelle Hayes 56:07
I think 

Jennifer Hathaway 56:07
not 

Michelle Hayes 56:07
it should 

Jennifer Hathaway 56:07
escape 

Michelle Hayes 56:07
look like you if it doesn't look like you. Because 

Jennifer Hathaway 56:11
like. 

Michelle Hayes 56:11
the biggest thing, the biggest excuse I have heard in the past like month is I look old now. I don't want that. 

Rich Bennett 56:20
Jennifer. Apparently when I grew the beard back, I'm going to need new headshots. 

Michelle Hayes 56:25
But that was the biggest reason I heard. I look old now. Well, okay. This is a medical practice. If come into your office and I don't see the face that I saw online when I booked an appointment with you that I've waited months for at this point. Because you're some kind of specialist, hypothetically. hypothetically. 

Because there are specialists, there are regular, you know, amps and all kinds of that. But if I book an appointment with you and you don't look like what you look like online, that's going to immediately spike my anxiety. 

Rich Bennett 56:55
I mean, I've had people 

Michelle Hayes 56:56
Like. 

Rich Bennett 56:57
come on the podcast. 

Michelle Hayes 56:58
Even virtually. 

Rich Bennett 56:59
And. 

Michelle Hayes 57:01
Mm hmm. 

Rich Bennett 57:01
Because you look at my the picture on the pie case, it looks like, well, the no hair and the goat. But when I'm doing scene, I got the full beard. I've had people cause it was rich. Yeah, that's. You don't. 

Danielle Murphy 57:13
See, when I pulled up here, I thought I was going to see the beard. And so then I 

Rich Bennett 57:16
Oh. 

Danielle Murphy 57:16
did it. And I was cute. 

Grace Vohs 57:18
You got us all with that one on us. 

Jennifer Hathaway 57:20
I think. 

Grace Vohs 57:21
But I think what she's saying is 

Rich Bennett 57:22
Jennifer 

Grace Vohs 57:22
it's not 

Rich Bennett 57:22
knows 

Grace Vohs 57:22
even. 

Rich Bennett 57:23
it comes off a. 

Danielle Murphy 57:24
And. 

Grace Vohs 57:25
It's not even like the hair versus no hair, like those kind of changes. Like, I think what Michelle is getting at is if you're like a completely different person, like. 

Rich Bennett 57:34
Yeah. 

Grace Vohs 57:35
Aged beyond 

Rich Bennett 57:36
I do look 

Grace Vohs 57:37
five 

Rich Bennett 57:37
like a completely 

Grace Vohs 57:37
years. 

Rich Bennett 57:37
different person, 

Michelle Hayes 57:38
You 

Rich Bennett 57:38
though, 

Michelle Hayes 57:38
don't. 

Rich Bennett 57:38
when it comes off and what it's on. 

Grace Vohs 57:40
Yes, but you still have the same facial features you haven't like aged 20 years from the last time we saw you. You look a lot different, but you're still the same person. 

Rich Bennett 57:51
Right. 

Grace Vohs 57:53
From prior that. 

Michelle Hayes 57:53
If you had brown hair and now you're fully gray and you know, you look like the grip keeper, Maybe you need a new photo. Also some voter. 

Jennifer Hathaway 58:02
Their argument would probably. 

Danielle Murphy 58:03
Change your. 

Michelle Hayes 58:04
Yeah. People hate. 

Danielle Murphy 58:05
think a big part of it is just insecurity and the other is change and the other is making the time to actually do the photos. 

Rich Bennett 58:14
Right. 

Danielle Murphy 58:14
Because we run around, we're like, I'm 

Grace Vohs 58:16
I'm so 

Danielle Murphy 58:16
so 

Grace Vohs 58:16
busy. 

Danielle Murphy 58:16
busy, I'm so busy, I'm so busy. But it's like, Yeah, but these head shots. 

Grace Vohs 58:20
Shots are for. 

Danielle Murphy 58:20
Your business is an investment. It's for you. You need to do this for you and your. 

Grace Vohs 58:27
Yeah. 

Michelle Hayes 58:28
And I mean putting a face out there, too. And it doesn't have to be like like a doctor. doctor. It can be like. 

Danielle Murphy 58:36
Fine. There's so many different. 

Michelle Hayes 58:38
You know, whatever your branding is, I know our our goal is to be approachable by the mom and pop business as well as the medical office. We want to be able to kind of flow and flex per what our client needs, and that's our branding. You see more of like, Oh, I'm going to be cozy, cozy, comfy and cozy, kind of merged. I'm so sorry. My mouth and my. 

Grace Vohs 59:02
Uh Uh huh. 

Michelle Hayes 59:03
Brain fog Israel. But you see more like down to earth cozy. Not that we're not down to earth, but sometimes we get a little. 

Grace Vohs 59:10
Depends on the day. 

Michelle Hayes 59:11
Yeah, We're crazy. 

Danielle Murphy 59:12
Like when people. 

Jennifer Hathaway 59:13
On my podcast. 

Danielle Murphy 59:15
It's literally us sitting on a couch in, like, jeans and t shirts like 

Michelle Hayes 59:19
Exactly. 

Danielle Murphy 59:19
you. dress up in heels and light. 

Michelle Hayes 59:21
Right. Right. And so. I told you, I have a pair that'll fit you at the house. 

Danielle Murphy 59:28
Heels. Bow tags. 

Michelle Hayes 59:30
You're going to set red shop with a glammed out. 

Danielle Murphy 59:33
Grams. 

Michelle Hayes 59:34
But it. 

And if that is in a sweatshirt and leggings, that's great. Then that's what your headshot needs to be in. If your branding is in, you know, a suit and tie, if that's what you wear. Cool. Get your headshot in that. If you always wear your hair up, wear a. 

Danielle Murphy 59:52
So I compares. 

A lot of. 

Rich Bennett 59:59
Yeah. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:00:01
Again with the. 

Danielle Murphy 1:00:01
Talks profession. She. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:00:02
She won't care. 

Danielle Murphy 1:00:04
But my 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:00:04
My 

Danielle Murphy 1:00:04
friend. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:00:04
friend Chris. 

Danielle Murphy 1:00:05
She's very real. She's a real woman, and she doesn't do her whole face. Like a lot of other injectors do because they think they have to look a certain way. And it's like if you just show up authentically, not only in your body. It's it just makes life easier. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:00:22
When I did Career Day at my kid's school, one of the examples that I did was I had I was trying to show the kids of the importance of having a good head shot and what a difference that would make. So I did a like a selfie kind of. I had my daughter do like just where, you know, what she was wearing at that moment and like, take a selfie in the house. And then I was 

Michelle Hayes 1:00:49
Okay, so. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:00:50
bringing my eye to. Love shirt and good luck. 

Michelle Hayes 1:00:56
With 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:00:56
My 

Michelle Hayes 1:00:56
my. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:00:56
professional. 

Michelle Hayes 1:00:57
Advice. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:00:58
Side. And 

Michelle Hayes 1:00:59
I. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:00:59
I showed the kids, you know, like if you're hiring somebody who's going to catch your attention more to get the job done. Like, same person, you know, same same resume, same person and. 

Danielle Murphy 1:01:11
For our clients. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:01:12
Right. And everybody agreed that that that definitely looks like somebody that's going to be more serious about the job. I mean, because, you know, somebody might say, oh, it's just a picture. But to somebody that doesn't know you, that picture is going to speak a thousand words just by like a first impression. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:29
We need to do another event like that. That was fun. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:01:32
That was fun. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:33
My sister talks about that all the time. We. This is before you came on. Jennifer said. Let's go to my. Have all the cohosh come. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:01:41
And. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:43
Do a little building where everybody can meet each other will do a photoshoot. And. She did. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:01:48
We had donuts. We started it off. Right. You know. 

Michelle Hayes 1:01:52
Doughnuts are like I. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:01:54
It's the best I. 

Michelle Hayes 1:01:57
I make it a point to like retainer checks. I make sure to pick them up in person. I don't like the mailed to me and so I go pick mine up and I do it on a set day every month and we take donuts and it sounds really dumb. It really, really does. But I cannot tell you I've got Ms.. Charlie at this one client. She's not CEO. She doesn't really make decisions, but she is a sweetest little lady. I love her to death and she wants her chocolate. Chocolate. And 

Grace Vohs 1:02:24
As 

Michelle Hayes 1:02:24
so. 

Grace Vohs 1:02:24
it becomes. 

Michelle Hayes 1:02:25
Until I associate you with donuts and everybody loves you and it's great. And you're like. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:02:30
find that. That. Sweet spot. 

Michelle Hayes 1:02:33
Yeah, it's great. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:02:35
Yeah, that's. 

Michelle Hayes 1:02:37
I love doughnuts. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:02:38
I mean, like Jen said, all. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:40
All you all do. 

Michelle Hayes 1:02:41
Do. 

Grace Vohs 1:02:42
Social media marketing. 

Michelle Hayes 1:02:43
Yes, we do. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:44
Say. 

Danielle Murphy 1:02:47
Websites, but I don't like doing. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:50
You do the media did the press releases right. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:02:54
Yes, more social 

Rich Bennett 1:02:55
All right. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:02:56
media. I kind of do a little bit of everything. I'm think now I do more social media management, more photography, more branding sessions. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:04
Okay. 

Danielle Murphy 1:03:04
I've been doing a lot of Facebook group management now to. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:07
All right. So have you. 

Grace Vohs 1:03:08
You guys look. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:09
Looked into doing. 

18. 

Michelle Hayes 1:03:14
I. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:15
And Daniel, I know you probably have done. Marketing. 

Danielle Murphy 1:03:20
Is. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:03:23
Just I only did the podcasting with you other than securing clients to go on podcasts. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:29
No, no, no. I 

Michelle Hayes 1:03:29
I 

Rich Bennett 1:03:29
don't 

Michelle Hayes 1:03:29
only 

Rich Bennett 1:03:29
mean guesting 

Michelle Hayes 1:03:30
get. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:30
on. In other words, like. For example, the 

years ago I somebody heard my podcast and California. And they got stationed 

Grace Vohs 1:03:45
Station. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:46
out here, I guess. Yeah, because APG moved out here and heard 

Grace Vohs 1:03:50
Are 

Rich Bennett 1:03:50
me. 

Grace Vohs 1:03:50
we 

Michelle Hayes 1:03:50
Been 

Grace Vohs 1:03:51
talking 

Michelle Hayes 1:03:51
talking 

Grace Vohs 1:03:51
about? 

Michelle Hayes 1:03:51
about. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:51
Out. Freedom. Freedom, Fredricka. So they open. Because when I do. Whenever. 

Grace Vohs 1:03:59
One. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:00
I'll do what's called a shred, at which they say who saw it ad on a podcast actually gets better results than print TV. In radio ads. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:04:13
Oh, yeah, I would. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:14
Because the listener already trust the house. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:04:17
Yeah. And you're talking to that specific. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:19
Yeah. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:04:19
Yeah. Well, your target market. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:21
But have you guys looked into that at all doing that for your clients? 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:04:25
Yeah, we have. I think so. 

Danielle Murphy 1:04:28
It's a beast. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:04:29
A lot. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:30
MP Yeah. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:04:31
I think for the clients that we have right now, other except for maybe an event that's coming up, a lot of them. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:38
Sorry. Say that all I can think of is the Italian. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:04:42
She's stacking. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:43
Yelled at. I'm sorry. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:04:47
I never know what I'm going to get into. 

A lot of times it's for our client. It's more getting them like on the show as a host. But yeah, there's definitely, I think, opportunity to level up and like. 

Michelle Hayes 1:05:02
Maybe you should. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:05:03
Ed partner with that podcast and then you could become, you know, an official sponsor or something like that. 

Rich Bennett 1:05:10
What about? 

Danielle Murphy 1:05:11
Life coaches start podcasts and. 

Rich Bennett 1:05:13
Yeah. 

Danielle Murphy 1:05:14
He helped with their. 

Rich Bennett 1:05:15
And I believe almost any type of. 

The way they're growing. 

Danielle Murphy 1:05:21
But people don't. 

Rich Bennett 1:05:22
They don't. What they and love. They don't look into the research of it. But what about the. I said I. But it may be. The voice activated marketing, you know, through like Alexa and all that. Have you guys looked into any of that? 

Michelle Hayes 1:05:37
That's a question for my tech lead. 

Rich Bennett 1:05:41
Okay. 

But not that you haven't looked at the VR yet either. 

Michelle Hayes 1:05:46
There's a reason there's two of. 

Rich Bennett 1:05:48
Because the reason I ask is because they're saying that that's going to be really huge in 2025, the VR is growing and everything is smart, everything. everything. I mean, you think about you could if you have Lexi at home. 

Danielle Murphy 1:06:05
know, but why? 

Michelle Hayes 1:06:06
It's. 

Danielle Murphy 1:06:06
It's like. I feel like so many times I don't want to feel like I understand the value and all of these things and new things, but it's like if I just focus on all. Now that I'm not like. 

Rich Bennett 1:06:18
So you're sticking with a niche which is good, 

Danielle Murphy 1:06:20
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:06:21
right? 

Danielle Murphy 1:06:21
Like, I love working with moms because I'm a mom and I understand how hard it is to. 

Rich Bennett 1:06:27
Yeah. 

Danielle Murphy 1:06:28
Somebody's mom and that you don't have time. That's who I connect with. That's I I've never dealt with where I've had to have multiple people approve content like I've never it's 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:06:37
It's 

Danielle Murphy 1:06:37
always. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:06:37
a lot of fun. 

Danielle Murphy 1:06:39
Like I'm. Texting the. 

Michelle Hayes 1:06:41
Yeah, 100%. 

Danielle Murphy 1:06:42
No, like, it's like that's a whole. World's. 

Rich Bennett 1:06:45
Okay. 

Danielle Murphy 1:06:45
It's like, I know, I know it's coming, but I'm not. I don't really. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:06:49
But you know what? The beauty of being in charge, though, is that you can say that's. 

Michelle Hayes 1:06:54
You can do that. You. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:06:55
Exactly. Yes. And you shouldn't feel bad about saying I'm not a good fit for you. 

Danielle Murphy 1:07:00
Like with the ads, I'm like, Please don't. 

Rich Bennett 1:07:02
But the other thing is, too, there may be another company that. You could. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:07:08
Right. That's part of being a good leader. 

Rich Bennett 1:07:10
That may be their thing. They strictly do. 

Whereas you're doing social media marketing and. 

Danielle Murphy 1:07:16
Like if I had a big company, a big medical company come to me. Now that I know you, I'm like, okay, I'm going to send them over to 

Michelle Hayes 1:07:21
Yeah. 

Danielle Murphy 1:07:21
Clever Cat, because that's not what I'm doing. Like, that's you. 

Michelle Hayes 1:07:25
And we love doing websites. Heads up. 

Danielle Murphy 1:07:28
Then. 

Michelle Hayes 1:07:29
Anybody needs. Tick tock. I'll show them your way. 

Danielle Murphy 1:07:31
I'll do I'll do a website update all day like that's 

Michelle Hayes 1:07:34
Oh, no. My husband 

Danielle Murphy 1:07:35
building. 

Michelle Hayes 1:07:35
builds them. 

Danielle Murphy 1:07:37
That's too, you know. 

Grace Vohs 1:07:39
He. 

Michelle Hayes 1:07:39
He. But he does all the customizations and he's he works in tech for his day job and then he's kind of mine at night, so he doesn't get a break ever. He kind of works works. He's also in school, so he doesn't stop until he hits the pillow. And then he wakes up at 430 and then keeps. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:08:01
Go. 

Rich Bennett 1:08:02
Oh, yeah. I'm not going at the time cause I got another. Virtual recording this afternoon. To go go around. Two last questions. Well, we started with you. First will go Michelle's way. What's the biggest challenge you're facing right now as the marketer? 

Michelle Hayes 1:08:23
That's a very good. 

Rich Bennett 1:08:24
Besides being hit by dogs? Well, that's why I asked the question. 

Michelle Hayes 1:08:27
Jorge's. 

The challenge right now is the thought process that marketers just want to spend your money. One of the first things that we usually do is stop you spending extra money. We like to stop all your Google ads. We like to stop all your Facebook spending so that we know where your money is going, why your money is going there, and we can suggest a better spend. 

We have a client that was spending thousands for no reason and they actually just went through budget cuts. And we were like, Well, then why are you spending 2000 a month on this? And they they it's so odd to say, don't spend your money when the stigma is we just want your money. And so it was really jarring. But I think the the that that stigma is just the hard one. 

Rich Bennett 1:09:17
But do you look at 

if. There might. That was war. 

Grace Vohs 1:09:22
Working. 

Rich Bennett 1:09:23
tell them to keep that going. 

Michelle Hayes 1:09:26
If I had run into that case, I would take that case by case. 

Rich Bennett 1:09:30
Okay. 

Michelle Hayes 1:09:31
Was it 

Rich Bennett 1:09:32
didn't 

Michelle Hayes 1:09:32
working 

Rich Bennett 1:09:32
run 

Michelle Hayes 1:09:32
well? 

Rich Bennett 1:09:32
into. 

Michelle Hayes 1:09:33
I haven't run into that yet. We we kind of have found the the broken puppies and become. 

But we kind of you know, we found a lot of clients that just needed help and they found marketers, you know, the larger companies that were unapproachable. And we they went with us because they really liked that we were approachable. And it's my husband and I. 

Rich Bennett 1:10:00
Ignore me. I forgot to take photos. 

Don't you turn your head. 

Michelle Hayes 1:10:07
Yeah. Yeah. So I think that's the the stigma is pretty pretty 

Rich Bennett 1:10:11
Well. 

Michelle Hayes 1:10:12
much there. Well. 

Rich Bennett 1:10:13
really can't say. You don't know yet. 

Grace Vohs 1:10:16
I'm a baby marketer. 

Rich Bennett 1:10:18
You're what? 

Grace Vohs 1:10:19
Baby marketer. 

Michelle Hayes 1:10:19
She's a baby. 

Danielle Murphy 1:10:20
But they have the best. 

Rich Bennett 1:10:23
Who, baby? Margaret. 

Danielle Murphy 1:10:24
Yes. Her generation. 

Rich Bennett 1:10:27
Oh. 

Danielle Murphy 1:10:27
Genius. Genius. 

Michelle Hayes 1:10:32
She's 20. She has good ideas and she can share. 

Danielle Murphy 1:10:35
And she is energy. 

Michelle Hayes 1:10:37
Right. 

Danielle Murphy 1:10:37
Wow. That's amazing. 

Michelle Hayes 1:10:39
I was so excited. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:10:42
I know it's always like when we have we have interns, like every season. And it's always fun to see you there. It's their insight. Yeah. And always like to see, like, what their struggles are, what they think their struggles 

Rich Bennett 1:10:58
Right? 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:10:58
are, what they find overwhelming. What you think that they might find overwhelming that is just completely not doesn't faze them whatsoever. They hop right And 

Rich Bennett 1:11:07
Yeah. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:11:07
it's always so you never judge a book by its cover. You never know what they're going to you know, what they're going to say or whether it's it's really fun. 

Rich Bennett 1:11:17
I know she got out of the car right away and started. A hard time. 

Michelle Hayes 1:11:21
Because she 

Grace Vohs 1:11:22
Started 

Michelle Hayes 1:11:22
met 

Grace Vohs 1:11:22
in. 

Michelle Hayes 1:11:22
you on the video call. 

Grace Vohs 1:11:24
We. 

Danielle Murphy 1:11:25
He said he. 

Michelle Hayes 1:11:25
You knew immediately that you guys would be fine. 

Grace Vohs 1:11:28
Just 

Rich Bennett 1:11:28
I didn't. 

Grace Vohs 1:11:28
match your energy. 

Rich Bennett 1:11:29
I was getting on her. 

Michelle Hayes 1:11:31
She manages energy. 

Grace Vohs 1:11:32
We started with the Yessir and then I got made fun of for that 

Rich Bennett 1:11:35
I said, 

Grace Vohs 1:11:35
one. 

Rich Bennett 1:11:35
don't call me. 

Grace Vohs 1:11:36
So I started 

Rich Bennett 1:11:36
Well, 

Grace Vohs 1:11:36
off. Yeah, I start off respectful, but if you give me the energy, I'll match up. 

Rich Bennett 1:11:44
Yeah. Yeah. It's the officers you call, sir, and they don't do shit. Oh, shit. Was Mitchell an officer? 

Okay. 

Django. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:11:56
This is what this is. 

Rich Bennett 1:11:58
The biggest challenge. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:11:59
The biggest challenge for me. I think now this is also just for me, because I've worked 

Grace Vohs 1:12:06
I. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:12:06
I've worked for an agency for so long that it's 

figuring out the. 

Grace Vohs 1:12:15
Pricing and. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:12:15
And the value for the work that we do, because I've been in it for and we've all been in it for so long, like some. I'm also like a very do it yourself kind of person. And I've always been that way, not always by choice. It's just the family that I grew up in is do it yourself. So there's certain things that like when I do go to like charge for if I see what the agency is charging for my time and it does make sense. But then I'm like, Oh my God. But then I look at it like, long term. I'm like, actually, like it is an investment and people shouldn't get sticker shock or like, price shock when they see, like, how much it is because they have to look at it the bigger picture. And then I think we've all fallen into this I pro-bono work and I am told like I have taken on so much and just in 2025 my ability to say I'm sorry, I can't like unless we have some kind of contract in place or something like that, like I cannot take on any more because to somebody that thing's like, Oh jeez, she can help with that. Or she, you know, goes with any trade to like you. You have to set your boundaries and know your value because if you're not, if they're not going to pay you to do it, they're they obviously they need the help. They need the support. So they're going to pay somebody else to do it. So you've got to pay your bills to them. I think that's my biggest hurdle this year. 

Rich Bennett 1:13:42
Damon. The year just started. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:13:44
I know this is an ongoing hurdle, one that I just haven't really. 

Grace Vohs 1:13:48
Time that it takes. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:13:49
Exactly. 

Grace Vohs 1:13:50
You're right, because going back to what we said earlier, like how you guys were saying, people will say to just whip up a post like this is a. 

Michelle Hayes 1:13:57
Rolling down a hill 

Grace Vohs 1:13:58
Like 

Michelle Hayes 1:13:58
like. 

Grace Vohs 1:13:58
you have to gain that momentum. And if you don't have 

Rich Bennett 1:14:00
Oh. 

Grace Vohs 1:14:00
the. Like. 

Rich Bennett 1:14:02
That was a good explanation. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:14:04
Is. 

Danielle Murphy 1:14:04
You 

Michelle Hayes 1:14:06
Tell 

Danielle Murphy 1:14:06
say 

Michelle Hayes 1:14:06
us she's worked on post 

Danielle Murphy 1:14:07
they just 

Michelle Hayes 1:14:07
creation. 

Danielle Murphy 1:14:07
say these things in your 

Michelle Hayes 1:14:08
Your 

Danielle Murphy 1:14:08
life. 

Michelle Hayes 1:14:09
life. 

Danielle Murphy 1:14:10
I love you. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:14:12
My ear is spot on and it really is. It's a domino effect, the ball rolling down the hill. And you know, what I really started doing last year was I really started. And when somebody you know, when they think, okay. You're reading or you're listening to podcasts and different. I'm 

Grace Vohs 1:14:27
I'm 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:14:27
always 

Grace Vohs 1:14:27
always. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:14:28
trying to listen for that one magical piece of advice that's going to make it like click for me. And I'm yet to hear it, but I'm always hearing like, Well, you have to know your cost of business and you have to know what your hourly rate is and everything. But I'm like it. And I'm like. 

Danielle Murphy 1:14:43
You will not charge. 

In that moment. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:14:51
Yes, I'm still very much on that journey. But I will say the very last event that I had given a quote out for last year, what would have what really was the kick in the butt for me was that event fell on gingerbread night at my kids school. So I was like, okay, so this is really where I'm going to be torn between. I'm going to price this job out and I'm going to be missing my kids gingerbread night. So it's got to be done. It's got to be priced out perfectly. So figure out what my hourly rate is. And then I mean, I was thinking, okay, so it's going to take me an hour to drive there, a half hour to set up, you know, 3 hours of photo coverage, a half hour to break down. And I was breaking it down within like half hour increments. And I went through like, okay, this is what an agency would charge to send a photographer out there. And, you know, adding all of them like any type of tolls. And and that and I said, okay, now normally I would go through that quote a million times and be like, Oh, God, I don't even know if I would pay that. And then and then I'm like, and then I'll tweak it and then, well, you know, and I'm like talking myself down when I'm thinking, Wait a minute, they came to me for help. Why am I, like talking down? Because I'm sticker shock by my own price. But you know what? I didn't do any of that because I was like, You know what? It's gingerbread night. So this is what. Yep. And you know what? They said? You're back, you're hired. Like we want you and. 

Rich Bennett 1:16:15
Undersell yourself. I. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:16:17
That's the best piece of advice. 

Rich Bennett 1:16:18
I learned. 

Michelle Hayes 1:16:19
This was. 

Rich Bennett 1:16:20
When I was deejaying. 

Michelle Hayes 1:16:21
I 

Rich Bennett 1:16:22
I 

Michelle Hayes 1:16:22
found. 

Rich Bennett 1:16:22
found that it might cause my sister to. You're charging way too cheap because need to raise your prices. He's out there getting at least ten. For what? So I. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:16:34
My rates. 

Rich Bennett 1:16:36
I didn't get as many bookings, but the 

Grace Vohs 1:16:39
Wilkins I got. 

Rich Bennett 1:16:40
Got were a lot less stressful 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:16:42
Right. 

Rich Bennett 1:16:42
and people 

Michelle Hayes 1:16:43
People 

Rich Bennett 1:16:43
don't 

Michelle Hayes 1:16:43
don't 

Rich Bennett 1:16:43
realize. 

Michelle Hayes 1:16:43
realize that if 

Rich Bennett 1:16:44
Phew. 

Michelle Hayes 1:16:44
you. 

Rich Bennett 1:16:45
Yeah. You got to charge what you believe you're worth. Never undersell yourself. Because and that's something that nobody if you look at all of us around this table, we've talked about anxiety and everything. Your cost because you're going to be dealing with a lot of it doing what you're doing. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:17:03
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:17:04
Yeah. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:17:04
And you're never off. 

Rich Bennett 1:17:05
No, 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:17:06
The media never stops. 

Rich Bennett 1:17:07
no. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:17:08
So you're always even you can turn off your notifications and you can do all of the things to kind of help you unplug. But you're always going to be thinking about it. You're always going to I mean, because I know I follow all of my clients, so I if I see a post go up that, you know, you want to make sure that you know, everything, you know, fired and everything that you scheduled is going up properly and that your ads are running. Okay, and that you've got that cap on your ads, does it end up spending more than what you had planned? And then you also have to think about when something you're just mine is constantly on it. Like if something if some kind of tragedy happens and then you want to go back in and you may need to pause all the posts that you had scheduled. So now, like this is these are things that we're thinking about that the client might not be thinking about, But like, you know, you don't it might not make sense at this moment, like when the key bridge went down. We went through and we we were like, okay, this is not going to be a good week to send out press releases. This is not going to be anything that that has to do with anything else. Paul Is it? We're going to re take a look at the calendar and see what makes sense. Paul Social media post Right now, you don't want to be tuned up like let's go back to the drawing board. So like, we're always thinking about things like that. 

Rich Bennett 1:18:25
Danielle Wood, your biggest struggle so far. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:18:28
I think a big part of it. 

Grace Vohs 1:18:31
Touched on this is. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:18:33
Just explaining to people that. Building a community on line is way more important and focusing and obsessing over follower count. 

Rich Bennett 1:18:44
Mm hmm. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:18:45
Absolutely. Mm hmm. And And how? 

Danielle Murphy 1:18:48
Helping my 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:18:49
Our 

Danielle Murphy 1:18:49
clients. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:18:49
clients to understand, like, you know, 

Danielle Murphy 1:18:52
How 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:18:52
how. 

Danielle Murphy 1:18:52
long? 

Michelle Hayes 1:18:52
Did it take for you to 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:18:53
To 

Michelle Hayes 1:18:53
build? 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:18:53
build your business. This is 

Danielle Murphy 1:18:54
How 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:18:54
how long 

Danielle Murphy 1:18:54
long 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:18:55
you 

Danielle Murphy 1:18:55
you 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:18:55
have 

Danielle Murphy 1:18:55
have to. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:18:55
to put it on your social media. This isn't 

Danielle Murphy 1:18:57
Isn't like 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:18:57
like. 

Danielle Murphy 1:18:58
a lot. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:18:58
I've had people. 

Danielle Murphy 1:18:59
People who will 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:19:00
They'll 

Danielle Murphy 1:19:00
hire 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:19:00
hire 

Danielle Murphy 1:19:00
me. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:19:00
me and then just take. 

Danielle Murphy 1:19:02
Take all my knowledge and think they can. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:19:04
Themselves. And. 

Danielle Murphy 1:19:05
And fire me. And it's. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:19:06
It's like it's 

Danielle Murphy 1:19:07
It's 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:19:08
not. 

Danielle Murphy 1:19:08
not what it's about here. I'm. I'm getting to know your business on a white glove service level, and that takes time. So give me time to work. That has been my biggest struggle, is that we live in a micro. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:19:20
Where 

Danielle Murphy 1:19:20
Where 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:19:21
we 

Danielle Murphy 1:19:21
we. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:19:21
want. 

Danielle Murphy 1:19:21
Instant results. Instant blow up instant viral. And it's like that's not the most sustainable 

Michelle Hayes 1:19:27
Sustainable 

Danielle Murphy 1:19:28
or 

Michelle Hayes 1:19:28
or smart. 

Danielle Murphy 1:19:28
smartest way to do it. So. 

Rich Bennett 1:19:31
I think my biggest struggle and I all the years that I've been doing this, I don't know a true, accurate way. For business to figure out. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:19:48
Where. 

Rich Bennett 1:19:48
Are there. Good. 

I can look at your display advertising. I can. Clicks they're getting on their ads and all that which and the star click. The ratio is very good. But then they'll tell me that they're not getting any work from it. Well, how do. And I always bring up the 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:20:11
When I 

Rich Bennett 1:20:11
first 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:20:11
first 

Rich Bennett 1:20:11
guy. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:20:11
got. 

Michelle Hayes 1:20:11
Got into. 

Rich Bennett 1:20:12
Do you say? It was a brand new WXYZ, brand new radio station, brand new, and went to a car dealer and told him about the station. Of course, there was a new station. We never heard of it. I said, Well, do me a favor. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:20:26
Faber. 

Rich Bennett 1:20:28
People come into your dealership as 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:20:30
So for the next couple 

Rich Bennett 1:20:31
we. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:20:31
weeks. 

Rich Bennett 1:20:33
Because they were already advertising on radio, just not on our 

Grace Vohs 1:20:35
Our 

Rich Bennett 1:20:35
station. 

Grace Vohs 1:20:35
station. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:20:37
We're not. 

Michelle Hayes 1:20:37
I went back and 

Rich Bennett 1:20:37
A 

Michelle Hayes 1:20:37
got. 

Rich Bennett 1:20:37
couple of weeks later the. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:20:39
The general manager think that's. 

Rich Bennett 1:20:41
Were you thinking before? He said. had for us. You. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:20:44
I can't believe how 

Rich Bennett 1:20:45
May 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:20:45
many 

Rich Bennett 1:20:45
people 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:20:45
people 

Rich Bennett 1:20:46
come 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:20:46
come 

Rich Bennett 1:20:46
in 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:20:46
in 

Rich Bennett 1:20:46
and 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:20:46
and 

Rich Bennett 1:20:46
say 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:20:46
say. 

Rich Bennett 1:20:46
they heard or I don't see why. Well, we haven't ran an ad on WXYZ for you. So those people never heard an ad for you. It's because that's this. 

Michelle Hayes 1:20:59
People. 

Rich Bennett 1:20:59
Listening to. And they 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:21:01
You 

Rich Bennett 1:21:01
just 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:21:01
just. 

Rich Bennett 1:21:01
thought that. And that's one of the. I've 

Grace Vohs 1:21:04
I've 

Rich Bennett 1:21:04
seen 

Grace Vohs 1:21:04
seen 

Rich Bennett 1:21:04
this 

Grace Vohs 1:21:04
this. 

Rich Bennett 1:21:04
with some of my. 

Michelle Hayes 1:21:06
Sponsors and. 

Rich Bennett 1:21:06
Now. 

It's. I don't know what it is. I mean, if you you go to get I don't want to say Botox. Let's say you go somewhere else to get both. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:21:19
you remember? 

Danielle Murphy 1:21:20
Sir. Graham. 

Rich Bennett 1:21:21
Okay. But I mean, because you are 

Danielle Murphy 1:21:22
I 

Rich Bennett 1:21:22
to. 

Danielle Murphy 1:21:22
remember because I'm on social media. 

Rich Bennett 1:21:24
Okay. 

Danielle Murphy 1:21:24
A normal person. 

Rich Bennett 1:21:25
Who got a car recently. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:21:29
We. Oh yeah, we did this year. My, it was my husband's. I don't drive it, so I didn't even. 

Rich Bennett 1:21:34
Did you hear an ad for it? 

Danielle Murphy 1:21:37
Really here adds any anymore. 

Rich Bennett 1:21:39
Then again. 

Danielle Murphy 1:21:40
We go. 

Rich Bennett 1:21:41
To radio that much. 

Danielle Murphy 1:21:42
We go. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:21:43
Searching for information. 

Danielle Murphy 1:21:44
You know. 

Rich Bennett 1:21:44
Yeah. Before a new car. 

Danielle Murphy 1:21:46
Well, cars, that's a very different. 

Rich Bennett 1:21:48
Right. I mean, it's. I guess it's a. 

Michelle Hayes 1:21:51
Sorry, but car advertising is a whole. Different language. 

Rich Bennett 1:21:55
Oh, I love it. I love it. But yeah, I mean, even like business. The business. Because business. 

Grace Vohs 1:22:00
Business. 

Rich Bennett 1:22:02
You're going to get more, I think, from late. 

Grace Vohs 1:22:04
Like then. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:22:06
Because it's more 

Michelle Hayes 1:22:07
I'm. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:22:07
of a B2B. 

Rich Bennett 1:22:07
Right. 

Danielle Murphy 1:22:09
The. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:22:09
One thing. 

Danielle Murphy 1:22:11
That is all. Is that the why? 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:22:15
You're always going to have someone saying, Hey, I heard this on Facebook. I just have to say my 

Danielle Murphy 1:22:20
My wife. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:22:20
wife said, I need to reach 

Danielle Murphy 1:22:21
Reach 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:22:21
out. 

Danielle Murphy 1:22:21
out to you about social media. It's finding 

Michelle Hayes 1:22:24
The 

Danielle Murphy 1:22:25
the information 

Michelle Hayes 1:22:25
information and searching 

Danielle Murphy 1:22:26
and 

Michelle Hayes 1:22:26
it until. 

Danielle Murphy 1:22:26
telling. They don't even know where the fuck they saw the. 

Rich Bennett 1:22:29
No. But for business. In other words. 

Danielle Murphy 1:22:30
Say. 

Rich Bennett 1:22:33
For my business A. 

Michelle Hayes 1:22:33
We do business with. 

Rich Bennett 1:22:34
Another business. 

Danielle Murphy 1:22:35
Okay. 

Rich Bennett 1:22:36
They're 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:22:36
They're 

Rich Bennett 1:22:36
not 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:22:36
not 

Rich Bennett 1:22:37
going. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:22:37
going to find that. 

Rich Bennett 1:22:38
Like Facebook. 

Danielle Murphy 1:22:39
Yeah, sure. You build collaborations and you build a community. Around your business. That's what I do. 

Rich Bennett 1:22:46
Okay. 

Danielle Murphy 1:22:47
My. Always lead right back into my business. It's it's not separated. It it doesn't have to be separate. It's all together one brand and it's a big circle. And it all is supposed to kind of lead back to your business. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:23:01
I think I understand what you're thinking, though. You're thinking of more corporate 

Rich Bennett 1:23:07
Like. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:23:07
buying up like like, like almost like where you're corporate a tired of LinkedIn and talk B to be on LinkedIn and then Instagram can be more fun and hashtag and. But it is all still connected like you might your post may look a little bit different on Instagram than what it's going to look like on LinkedIn. LinkedIn, you might be talking about more like work achievements. 

Rich Bennett 1:23:30
Right. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:23:31
Different partnerships, and it might be the place where you might want to connect with other companies to sponsor, you know, a fundraiser or something like that. But you could still have your message on those other platforms, too. It's just. 

Rich Bennett 1:23:46
Yeah. Oh, no. You. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:23:47
Look a little different. 

Rich Bennett 1:23:48
Yeah definitely have more there. I just know with. Although most of my. think I've actually come through to change. Anything. But I know I have gotten some from LinkedIn. I've had. 

Michelle Hayes 1:23:59
Some. 

Rich Bennett 1:24:00
From Facebook. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:24:01
Mm hmm. But back to your original, like, your original comment. A really? 

Michelle Hayes 1:24:07
But. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:24:07
That it comes down to you have to tracking it manually, asking how did you hear about me, how to and having your team members ask. How did you hear about me? Who referred you? And like. And really? 

Michelle Hayes 1:24:23
You just. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:24:24
Tracking it that way, because a lot of it is going to be word of mouth. A lot of it is going to be. 

You 

Rich Bennett 1:24:31
People. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:24:31
know, seeing somebody tagged in a Facebook 

Rich Bennett 1:24:32
They're short 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:24:33
post. 

Rich Bennett 1:24:33
term. He is not always there. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:24:35
Yeah, that's they say it takes like seven times. 

Rich Bennett 1:24:37
Yeah. 

Danielle Murphy 1:24:40
Consistent. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:24:41
Mm hmm. Exactly. Yeah. 

Danielle Murphy 1:24:43
People have to see things a million times and their last minute and they forget 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:24:46
Yeah. 

Danielle Murphy 1:24:46
and. 

Rich Bennett 1:24:46
Yeah. 

Danielle Murphy 1:24:47
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:24:48
All right. So last question. Now we go back around this way. 

Tell everybody how 

Michelle Hayes 1:24:54
Having. 

Rich Bennett 1:24:54
they. In touch with you And what? 

Michelle Hayes 1:24:56
Why? 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:24:58
Services. 

Rich Bennett 1:24:59
Michelle, you can't answer this. No. 

Danielle Murphy 1:25:06
To get in touch with me if you want to find. Instagram is just Mermaid Cove marketing Facebook. You can reach out Daniel Murphy or my business page. I'm on anything you. 

Rich Bennett 1:25:16
Wait a minute. 

Danielle Murphy 1:25:17
Neil Murphy in Mermaid Cove Marketing. 

Rich Bennett 1:25:18
Wait a minute now. So do you got to really point out, though, that Mermaid Cove Marketing. It's not of. 

Danielle Murphy 1:25:25
It's Kobe. 

Rich Bennett 1:25:26
Yeah, I see that. 

Danielle Murphy 1:25:27
There's an interesting story behind that, by the way. I'll have to tell you that one time, but not. 

Rich Bennett 1:25:32
Okay. 

Danielle Murphy 1:25:33
And what was the other part? Why they should work with me. 

Rich Bennett 1:25:36
Yes. 

Danielle Murphy 1:25:36
Okay. Well, I think the reason is because I'm a real person. I've had my own small businesses before, and I know what it feels like when you don't know how you're going to make your ends meet. And that is always my goal is. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:25:54
To see these business owners. 

Danielle Murphy 1:25:56
When? Because I. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:25:57
know how hard it is. 

Danielle Murphy 1:25:58
He's out there right now. And I feel that in my heart. I really understand that. And I always leave with my heart. And I think that that is just really hard to find sometimes. And so being invested. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:26:11
Emotionally with my. 

Danielle Murphy 1:26:12
Clients. And I joke and I say I become best friends with all my clients, but they've really become part of my family. 

Rich Bennett 1:26:17
It's family. Yeah. 

Danielle Murphy 1:26:18
Really is for me. 

Rich Bennett 1:26:20
That's one thing I get. So. Burnt up and upset any time I see a business close. 

Danielle Murphy 1:26:28
Yeah, me too. 

Rich Bennett 1:26:29
And especially if they close because nobody knew about them. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:26:33
Right. 

Danielle Murphy 1:26:34
Like the teal antler in Forest Hill. 

Rich Bennett 1:26:36
They closed. 

Danielle Murphy 1:26:37
They closed that location? Yes. 

Rich Bennett 1:26:39
Oh. 

Danielle Murphy 1:26:40
And then everyone commented and said, I didn't even know you existed. 

And I can't tell you how many times that happened. 

Rich Bennett 1:26:48
Never been there. But yeah, you see it all the time and. They have a social media account. 

Danielle Murphy 1:26:54
Yeah, It doesn't guarantee it. No. 

Grace Vohs 1:26:56
You're. 

Rich Bennett 1:26:57
You have to be. Yep. 

Danielle Murphy 1:26:59
And it stinks because there's so many amazing businesses just in Harford County, and I can't tell you. It's like, Oh, I've never heard of you, I've never heard of you. And it's like, that is why you should be on social. 

Rich Bennett 1:27:09
Hmm. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:27:10
I agree. I'm going to piggyback kind of off of what you said, too. And I'm you can find me on pretty much all the platforms that sincerely, Sawyer. But I also, too, have a passion for small businesses, and I love trying to find that one. Those little things that pop up once you get to know your client that are really cool that they might think is, you know, just something, you know, when we're like kind of tell me about yourself. And then they say something and you're like, Whoa, wait, back up. And then you can really kind of angle a marketing strategy. Yes. Like that's your little spark. And yeah, just finding those stories and helping story, those the, the local community like know about them and get them involved and watching them thrive. Because if they're thriving, then we're thriving and we want to see them do well. If you're doing well, then I'm doing my job right and I love doing I love helping people. And that's one way that. We can. 

Rich Bennett 1:28:10
I want to add something to that, too. So for all of you, listen, if you're using Mermaid Cove Marketing, if you're using Jennifers sincerely, Sawyer profiles if you're using. If you're using me, if something's 

Grace Vohs 1:28:24
Something's not. 

Rich Bennett 1:28:25
not working, let us know. Because I do see that. Where your. 

Michelle Hayes 1:28:31
You'll have. 

Rich Bennett 1:28:32
They were not. 

Grace Vohs 1:28:33
It's not work. 

Rich Bennett 1:28:34
If you're for. 

Michelle Hayes 1:28:35
Right. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:28:35
Right. 

Rich Bennett 1:28:36
Let us know. 

Michelle Hayes 1:28:37
Communication. 

Rich Bennett 1:28:38
Yes. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:28:39
Communication? 

Rich Bennett 1:28:39
Yes. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:28:40
Yes. 

Michelle Hayes 1:28:40
Huge. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:28:41
We're not mind readers. 

Rich Bennett 1:28:43
No. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:28:44
And you can also find I only had only given my personal account but profiles be more. That's the agency that I work for. And we're a full service marketing agency that can help, you know, with any of your marketing needs. 

Rich Bennett 1:29:01
Yeah. So if you you know, the. That's another story. Grace, You have anything? 

Grace Vohs 1:29:08
Yeah. So I'm on every social. 

Rich Bennett 1:29:10
That's why we don't care. 

Grace Vohs 1:29:13
You want a shovel? 

Rich Bennett 1:29:14
So go ahead. Go ahead. Great. 

Grace Vohs 1:29:17
Dig in your hole today. 

Rich Bennett 1:29:20
Good old song. 

Grace Vohs 1:29:22
He thinks because I'm associated with you, then you can. You're not going to get bullied, too. That's okay. I. 

Michelle Hayes 1:29:27
I'm sorry. 

Grace Vohs 1:29:29
Love, though. I see. You're just. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:29:31
Raise your hand if you've been victimized by. 

Rich Bennett 1:29:35
I was going to say, don't you dare raise your hand. All right. Go ahead, Grace. 

Grace Vohs 1:29:39
Um, yeah. I mean, I'm on every platform just under Grace Vos, just by my name. 

Rich Bennett 1:29:45
The process. 

Grace Vohs 1:29:46
The. 

Rich Bennett 1:29:48
Via. 

Grace Vohs 1:29:48
Not like the water, but. Yeah. One letter. Yeah. The oasis. The water. 

Rich Bennett 1:29:55
What? Water. 

Grace Vohs 1:29:56
Vast water. 

Rich Bennett 1:29:57
never heard of it. Dang, they need. 

Grace Vohs 1:29:59
I don't know. 

Rich Bennett 1:30:01
You 

Danielle Murphy 1:30:01
You 

Rich Bennett 1:30:01
got. 

Danielle Murphy 1:30:01
guys 

Grace Vohs 1:30:01
Maybe 

Danielle Murphy 1:30:01
are. 

Grace Vohs 1:30:01
they do. 

Rich Bennett 1:30:02
Never 

Grace Vohs 1:30:02
Never heard. 

Rich Bennett 1:30:03
heard. 

Grace Vohs 1:30:03
I Maybe I only have because it's like close to my last name. Yeah. And I tell people I'm like, Oh, that's like the water. And then I usually usually they're like, Oh, okay. 

Michelle Hayes 1:30:15
Also be able to 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:30:15
To find 

Michelle Hayes 1:30:16
find her. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:30:16
her on the. 

Michelle Hayes 1:30:17
Whoever can. 

Clever. 

Rich Bennett 1:30:26
Except for tick tock. 

Grace Vohs 1:30:28
It takes of. 

Rich Bennett 1:30:28
No, not the. 

Grace Vohs 1:30:29
Oh, not that. No. No, no, no. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:30:33
She has. 

Grace Vohs 1:30:35
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:30:35
Go ahead, Jennifer. I mean, go ahead, Michelle. haven't seen Jennifer in a long 

Michelle Hayes 1:30:39
Look, there's 

Rich Bennett 1:30:39
time. 

Michelle Hayes 1:30:39
even an m. Around my neck. 

Rich Bennett 1:30:42
No sideways. So. 

Grace Vohs 1:30:45
You have the age on right now. 

Michelle Hayes 1:30:47
So. So. You can reach us on Facebook and Instagram. Hold on. I almost forgot what social media. 

Grace Vohs 1:30:56
We have now. 

Michelle Hayes 1:30:57
Facebook and Instagram. LinkedIn. Clever cat. You can visit our website. Clever dash cat dot com. It will be having an update launched here in the next few days. Or you can come by. We have our brand new location that we actually just moved into at five North Main Street. If you walk into a coffee bar, the work space here shortly, it'll have our logo. But if you walk all the way back on the left and we are the last office on the left hand side, just give us a text, a call or a insert or not an instant message. God, I feel old. A direct message. And let us know you're coming by. 

Rich Bennett 1:31:43
Michelle. 

Michelle Hayes 1:31:44
Slide into my media. 

Rich Bennett 1:31:45
Much? A lot. 

Michelle Hayes 1:31:46
Actually, I can make a fresh French press or I can open a bottle of wine and we can have wine. 

Rich Bennett 1:31:53
Not when too much. 

Michelle Hayes 1:31:54
Okay, Well, then 

Grace Vohs 1:31:55
I've 

Michelle Hayes 1:31:55
you're. 

Grace Vohs 1:31:55
got a lot of drink up. 

Michelle Hayes 1:31:55
I'll buy you that at coffee bar, but I can make. 

Rich Bennett 1:31:58
Oh, 

Danielle Murphy 1:31:58
Oh, 

Rich Bennett 1:31:58
God. 

Danielle Murphy 1:31:59
that's. 

Rich Bennett 1:31:59
It was by accident. You say? 

Danielle Murphy 1:32:02
Q. 

Rich Bennett 1:32:03
God. Ladies, thank you so much. 

Jennifer Hathaway 1:32:06
Thank you. 

Rich Bennett 1:32:08
Thank you for listening to the conversations with Rich Bennett. I hope you enjoy today's episode and learn something from it as I did. If you'd like to hear more conversations like this, be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode. And if you have a moment, I'd love if you could leave a review. It helps us reach more listeners and share more incredible stories. Don't forget to connect with us on social media or visit our website at conversations with Rich Bennett dot com for updates, giveaways and more. Until next time, take care, be kind and keep the conversations going.