Faith, Forgiveness, and Resilience: John David Graham's Powerful Story

Sponsored by Tar Heel Construction Group

In this episode of Conversations with Rich Bennett, Rich sits down with John David Graham, founder of the Good Samaritan Home and author of Running as Fast as I Can. John shares his inspiring journey of resilience, redemption, and second chances, from his varied careers as a fireman, minister, and journalist to creating a nonprofit that provides housing and hope for individuals rebuilding their lives after incarceration. Together, they explore the power of forgiveness, the importance of community support, and the lessons learned through life's detours. Sponsored by Tar Heel Construction Group, this episode highlights the transformative impact of compassion and determination.

John David Graham – author

Sponsor Message:

This episode of Conversations with Rich Bennett is proudly sponsored by Tar Heel Construction Group. With over 20 years of experience, Tar Heel Construction Group is your trusted partner for roofing, siding, and gutter solutions in Harford County and the Greater Baltimore area. As a GAF Master Elite contractor, they’re dedicated to quality craftsmanship, exceptional customer service, and giving back to the community.

Whether it’s a roof replacement, repairs, or exterior remodeling, Tar Heel Construction Group has you covered. Learn more at tarheelconstructiongroup.com and let them protect what matters most—your home.

Thank you, Tar Heel Construction Group, for supporting this conversation about second chances and resilience!

Tar Heel Construction Group
Harford County Living Stamp of Approval for Roofing, Siding and Exterior Services

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

Transcript

Rich Bennett 0:02
Thanks for joining the conversation, where we explore the stories and experiences that shape our world. I'm your host, Rich Bennett. Today, I'm honored to welcome John David Graham, a man of many talents and deep compassion. John's journey has been anything but conventional for working as a fireman, counselor and journalist to founding Good Samaritan Home, a life changing program helping men and women rebuild their lives after incarceration. As an author, John captures profound stories of resilience and redemption. And his latest novel, Running As Fast As I Can, offers a powerful exploration of overcoming cycles of poverty, neglect and abuse. So join us as we dive into the inspirations behind his work and find out more about this novel that actually I'm going to say right off, before you even start writing and start talking to John. Make sure you get while you're listening. Go to John David Graham dot com. Again it's John David Graham dot com. Purchase the book now because once you hear more about it I guarantee you you're going to want to buy it anyways. And then after you read it of course leave a full review and purchase it for others. Why not? So how's it going, John? 

John David Graham 1:27
I'm glad to be here this morning. It's as I say, you very politely gloss over some of my detours in my my history. You mentioned three sidelines that I had gone through. There were about eight or nine. Not mistakes, but just career changes. And what I call second and third and fourth chances in my. 

Rich Bennett 1:50
Right. 

John David Graham 1:51
That was actually the basis of the novel is that I believe all of us need a lot of second chances because it's not that we make mistakes, but it's trial and error. We go down avenues, we say it doesn't work, and so we go back. Unfortunately, we live in a culture that says you need to be doing everything quickly while you're young. Make your fortune. And by the time you're 25, so you and Ellen can be noted on the podcast for your your great 

resilience. So some of us are long players or we're marathon runners. You have to keep running. And ironically, that's where the book's title came from. You have to keep running as fast as you can. And that's not fast compared to some. But they're in a sprint. Don't compare yourself to them. 

Rich Bennett 2:45
Right. Well, we have to. What careers did I miss? 

John David Graham 2:49
Well, let's see. I was a truck driver. 

Rich Bennett 2:52
Oh, wow. 

John David Graham 2:52
Yeah. And you met. I think you mentioned journalist. 

Rich Bennett 2:55
Yes. 

John David Graham 2:55
Yeah, I was a minister. Because that was my attempt at being civilized. Because I want I wanted to teach. And I thought being in the church was an avenue, because to get a teaching certificate would have required another four year undergraduate degree. So I ended up as a minister. But to be candid, I'm not civilized enough to be a minister. 

Rich Bennett 3:21
Wow. 

John David Graham 3:23
I have a tendency to run like a bull in a china shop. That's fine when you're driving a truck, but not when you're driving a congregation. 

Rich Bennett 3:34
How old you drive a truck for? 

John David Graham 3:36
Well, let's see. I drove an oiler for, I think. 

Rich Bennett 3:40
Who? 

John David Graham 3:42
And then I drove a road truck in Detroit in in the in the inner city of Detroit. And that was actor that would have been in the eighties. So it was post all of the racial conflict. So it was a racially divided and hostile city about. 

Rich Bennett 3:59
Yeah. So out of the different careers that you've had and I'm with you, I've had several as well. What was your favorite so far? Notice how I said so far, because we're still young, we can always pick up on the ones. 

John David Graham 4:16
Oh, did I mention building contractor to. 

Rich Bennett 4:19
Jesus. No. 

John David Graham 4:22
I just thought of that. Yeah, that required moving from state to state. You see, that's why some of us just. I was 53 before I found a Good Samaritan home, which is a nonprofit dealing with shelter for ex-offenders. But I should have been retiring, and I was just starting what I felt to be my niche. Where I was, I was posit a nonprofit trying to help others in the community who were struggling more than me. So I would 

Rich Bennett 4:52
Right. 

John David Graham 4:52
say, to answer your question or a career I enjoyed most is what I'm doing right now. 

Rich Bennett 4:59
And as the Good Samaritan. 

John David Graham 5:00
Right. We've been doing that for 24 years. 

Rich Bennett 5:04
And you said that's a five, A one, C three. 

John David Graham 5:05
501c3 It started off is my wife and I in our own house sharing our house for homeless persons. 

Rich Bennett 5:13
Right. 

John David Graham 5:13
Then we nickel and dimed and added another house and then got a contract eventually with the Department of Corrections to offer shelter for people on supervision. And they were able to pay us a per diem, which was a lifesaver because. We we were just literally living off of her salary at McDonald's. We had an I had no salary for five years. 

Rich Bennett 5:38
Wow. 

John David Graham 5:39
It was, and I was doing all this remodeling myself. We buy a house and try to remodel it. And I crawled through every nook and cranny of these houses, trying to remodel them. And they were 100 years old because that's all we could afford. 

Rich Bennett 5:53
Yeah. 

John David Graham 5:54
What I found was all my career mistakes actually came into play and helped me run Good Samaritan home because of the experiences I'd had. 

Rich Bennett 6:06
Do me a favor. Tell everybody before we get into the book, tell everybody the website for Good Samaritan Home so they can go there and actually make a donation as well. 

John David Graham 6:22
We don't solicit donations. But if someone. 

Rich Bennett 6:25
Really? 

John David Graham 6:25
No, we really don't. And I'll tell you why. Because I'm more concerned with getting people involved in the issues of second chances. 

I send out a newsletter every year and I never ask for money. I ask for it. Just be aware of what's going on. But the website is Good Samaritan Home dot org. Very simple and good. What we've gone from on the $5,000 budget in 90 in 2001 

and now we have a nearly $2 million budget and I. 

Rich Bennett 7:01
Whoa. 

John David Graham 7:02
Staff. And we have 19 houses right now with Good Samaritan home. And on any given day, we have 80 men and women who are on supervision from the parole department. 

Rich Bennett 7:16
Mm 

John David Graham 7:16
They 

Rich Bennett 7:16
hmm. 

John David Graham 7:16
are given free temporary housing so they can get a job and get back on their feet. And they can stay with us for six months or a year. And they don't pay a dime. 

Rich Bennett 7:28
That's awesome. 

John David Graham 7:29
But here's here's the best part is that if you help somebody get a job who's coming out of jail or prison. They become tax payers, not tax burdens. They pay child support. They buy goods in the community. And they can now become part of the community instead of a drain on the community. 

Rich Bennett 7:49
Yes. Yes. 

John David Graham 7:51
So it's not it's not just liberal compassion. It's actually Republican economics. 

Rich Bennett 7:56
Yeah, it's something. And I'm glad you're doing that. And there's some places out here where I live are the same way, and it's great that you're helping these people out and they do need another chance. You know, a lot of times we just people that are incarcerated and they come out, we're just like and you'll see this of a lot of businesses. They don't want to give them a chance. 

John David Graham 8:20
Right. 

Rich Bennett 8:21
But you're starting to see that turn around, at least in some places. 

John David Graham 8:25
There's an emotional reaction. This is not in my backyard. And when we start. 

Rich Bennett 8:29
Yeah. 

John David Graham 8:30
I thought that the people would be supportive because we're dealing with rehabilitation. But there was an immediate blowback because we had one man coming into our house from prison and be very candid. We live in a white, rural community and he was a black man from Cleveland. So there's an immediate preconception that all prisoners, all felons are black. And the numbers show that their majority are white. 

Rich Bennett 8:59
Right. 

John David Graham 9:00
And now what happened was with heroin and fentanyl, they become our neighbors, our children, our grandchildren. They become professionals who are who are addicted to prescription. We're seeing more of that, and that often leads to heroin addiction. So in other words, we're all susceptible to the issues that got some people in the prison. And so there were petitions trying to shut us down. There were council ordinances. There were threats. At one point I had police protection going in meetings and. 

Rich Bennett 9:38
Wow. 

John David Graham 9:38
Lawsuits. It took us about seven years of conflict. But today, those same critics, those same critics are now supporters. 

Rich Bennett 9:49
Good. 

John David Graham 9:50
So 

Rich Bennett 9:50
Good. 

John David Graham 9:50
we didn't win them over with our doctrines. We didn't win them with our presentations. We won them with our good neighborliness. Our house is become it was a 140 year old house that we completely remodeled. Made it into what it was in 1879 and of. 

Rich Bennett 10:10
While. 

John David Graham 10:11
So we became the neighbor that we wanted to have around us is what of. 

Rich Bennett 10:18
Right. 

Scary question. And I have a funny few. I know the answer, but if you don't take donations, how are you guys right. Raising money to run a. 

John David Graham 10:27
Technically, we're a contractor with a Department of Correction. So the Department of Correction pays $86 or even $106 a day 

Rich Bennett 10:37
Okay. 

John David Graham 10:37
for prison costs. But all the data says that if you put people in the community after their primary. 

Rich Bennett 10:44
Mm hmm. 

John David Graham 10:45
If you put them in community rehabilitation occurs in the community. So we are a community provider and so our houses are not not 

halfway houses, they're more of a boarding house. 

Rich Bennett 11:00
Right. 

John David Graham 11:00
So it's a shared house where maybe three or four men will share a house, a common area. And they they act like college roommates, but they their degree is in rehabilitation. 

Rich Bennett 11:14
Right. I love that. 

John David Graham 11:16
So what happens is that if it's going to cost 90 or $100 a day to incarcerate somebody, just lock them up like we did in the eighties. Number one, it didn't work because everybody gets released someday. Number two, we can't afford it. And number three, nobody wants to have a prison in their neighborhood. 

Rich Bennett 11:39
No. 

John David Graham 11:40
So they end up putting them way out in the woods and there's no family contact and everybody loses. So what we do with our program there in community and the Department of Corrections pays us a fraction of what they pay the prisons. So they save money at our houses. Our costs, where the nonprofit, our goal is just to pay our bills. Our $2 million budget comes from not just our contract, but we also have rentals to people who stay with us for a long term. So we might have 40 men who have stay with us for upwards of five and ten years. And we've we've become a landlord, but it's actually a long term mentoring relationship. That was the whole purpose of that. So that our funding comes through these the housing. 

Rich Bennett 12:34
Okay. Which makes sense, too. No, but. Oh, man, that's great. I'm glad you told me about that. I guess. I think we need more. More areas in the country. Need something like that as well. 

John David Graham 12:46
But what we've done is we've gone into an area. Our primary sources are in Dayton, Ohio. And so we feel 

Rich Bennett 12:52
Okay. 

John David Graham 12:52
as we go into an area that is has one in three houses are abandoned or burned out, and we buy a house and picks it up and it becomes the center of rehabilitation for that neighborhood. So, in effect, we try to rehabilitate neighborhoods as much as we can and not just people. 

Rich Bennett 13:12
Okay. And I guess that helped in a way with writing. Run is running as fast as I can. 

John David Graham 13:19
Running is fast. What happened was I was trying to convince people with data. And nobody. 

Rich Bennett 13:24
Okay. 

John David Graham 13:24
Nobody cares about data. So I said, How can I talk about second chances in a way that people understand? So I wrote this novel and it's fiction, but it's based on my journeys and the journeys of my residents. And it's about one man who came from an abusive family who went through the sixties and a Forrest Gump type of journey. 

Rich Bennett 13:46
Right. 

John David Graham 13:47
And he tried to find a family where he could be loved and find forgiveness. And when you grow up without structure, without any sort of teachings or guardrails, you end up drifting like I did. And so you end up going from job to job people to people. And Daniel went from he went from grew up in the steel mills of Pittsburgh area, ended up in San Francisco, ended up at Kent State during the shooting, ended up in Detroit during the riots. So it's that's why I call it a Forest Gump type of journey through. 

Rich Bennett 14:25
Yeah. 

John David Graham 14:26
But Daniel has become what I call everyman. He's. He's you and I, who's going through our journeys, our struggles. And in the end, Daniel does make it. But it's never an easy journey. It's never a sprint because he's running as fast as he can. But without the tools and the family and the support, he can never catch up. That's how many of us feel. 

Rich Bennett 14:55
Wow. With this. I love hearing about how because every author's different about when it comes to writing. But the research. How much research did you put into this? 

John David Graham 15:08
Oh, yeah, that's a good question. What I when I was doing all of my detours, I was always writing in a journal. So I had a lot of. 

Rich Bennett 15:17
Okay. 

John David Graham 15:17
Emotional notes. It just. It just. I could look back at 1980 on June 5th, and I could say, well, this is how I felt about that, because here's my. 

Rich Bennett 15:28
Wow. 

John David Graham 15:29
So I took those as a basis. But then when I got into something like Kent State, I did some deep research because I had Daniel at the Kent State protest. And I had him actually surrounded by National Guard, and I had someone next to him get shot and killed like actually happened. I wasn't at Kent State, but I was at Ohio State on the day of the shooting. And I was 

Rich Bennett 15:55
Right. 

John David Graham 15:55
I was involved in a protest and the guards surrounded us. Fortunately, nobody was killed at my. And I was just an observer. I was just like every other college student who was there to pick up girls and ended up surrounded by the guard. And everybody the mob mentality is so encompassing that before you know it, you're saying and doing things you never thought possible. 

Rich Bennett 16:24
Yeah. 

John David Graham 16:25
That's why I like to compare what happened in Daniel's life to what's happening today in our our politics and our sociology. We are we seem to be going through another cycle of protest and retroactive reciprocal violence that seems to follow. So that's why I've been following the events today with a great deal of interest. But from a broader perspective. 

Rich Bennett 16:54
Well, it's like history repeats itself. 

John David Graham 16:57
Absolutely. I had to post that this yesterday on Facebook about that very thing that Winston Churchill said that that that those who do not are aware of the past will repeat it. 

Rich Bennett 17:10
Yeah. 

John David Graham 17:11
I was talking about 68 being the fulcrum year where we thought we were coming apart, and it culminated at Kent State where we were actually shooting ourselves. And of course, we're seeing that much more common now with the gun violence. 

Rich Bennett 17:28
Yeah. 

John David Graham 17:29
It's more random now, which is, to me, even scarier. 

Rich Bennett 17:33
It is very scary, very scary. So with with Daniel, the main character in the book, 

are we talked about the research. But with the character itself, how did you come up with the character? 

John David Graham 17:51
Well, there's a book I modeled this after was actually a model. It a very rough framework of Somerset mom's book called Human Bondage. And it's the story of a Philip Carey who grew up with a clubfoot. And he always saw himself as handicapped. And it was set in about 19, oh, I think probably 1930, England. But the idea is that he because he saw himself as damaged, he treated himself as damaged. He expected damaged relationships, and he became obsessed with a woman who was abusive. And so I use that. And I went through my own history and said, have I been in those situations and why have I? So what I did was I took my own life. But it's not an autobiography. It's. 

Rich Bennett 18:41
Right. 

John David Graham 18:42
Very, very rough reference. And then I expanded it. People like you and I and how would we be in that situation? And then I added in the Forrest Gump history, and even with the Detroit riots, I even got down to actually mapping out the streets where the riots occurred. 

Rich Bennett 19:03
Wow. 

John David Graham 19:03
Daniel could follow that and that Daniel was the Detroit became a model of his own damaged life. And he said, if we can, he'll maybe I can do something here in Detroit. Maybe I can make a difference. So everything seemed to be 

intertwined. 

Rich Bennett 19:24
You know what? I'm glad you pointed that out, though, with going down to the street names and everything, because unfortunately, there are authors that really don't do that much research and a lot of readers as a reader to be like, Well, no, that ain't right, because there's no street called that. 

John David Graham 19:46
You lose credibility then? 

Rich Bennett 19:48
Yeah. And I'm glad you mention that, because I think that's something that more authors need to do. They need to dive deep into it. And I remember I had another author on. We were talking about this, and she did thorough research and she had to go back and change something because she remembered that she said something about the characters walking down the street and the tar was sticking to her shoes. And then she realized the time period she wrote it, they were cobblestone street. So you're really going to have to stay. But I mean, she went that far in, you know, into the research. But it makes sense. It makes the you're right, you have more credibility when you do that. 

John David Graham 20:33
There's one scene in San Francisco where Daniel was hitchhiking and he was homeless. And I even described the streets that he was walking. Castro Street, for example. 

Rich Bennett 20:44
Right. 

John David Graham 20:45
On Steiner Street, where you find the painted ladies, the famous houses in San Francisco. And that became a focal point of his interaction with another young man. Because they laugh and go there and look at those houses and imagine living there. 

Rich Bennett 21:01
Oh, wow. Wow. That's one place I've never been to yet. San Francisco. 

John David Graham 21:07
San Francisco. It's interesting you say that because it's in the news again, because it's become so dangerous. The homeless population at Daniel, when he went there in 1970, 1970, it was it was sold as the ideal city, the place where love means more than than money. And the first day there, he gets mugged and he's he's homeless and he's struggling, and he ends up panhandling to survive. And he ends up in a shelter. And in this shelter, he meets people who are struggling more than him. And it turns his life around because he realizes that there are people who have greater needs. 

Rich Bennett 21:51
Yes. 

John David Graham 21:52
But the question to ask is, I was told that San Francisco was the heyday of love and of peace. But what I'm finding is with heroin and what I'm finding is prostitution on the streets. I'm finding muggings. I'm not finding the city of love. And what his mentor says is that drugs changed everything. And that's exactly what happened in San Francisco. And that's what we're seeing today. 

Rich Bennett 22:20
Throughout the world. Well, May. And especially throughout the country. 

John David Graham 22:24
Absolutely. We started off saying free love, but 

Rich Bennett 22:28
Yeah. 

John David Graham 22:28
free love became extremely expensive with all our issues that followed it. Recreational marijuana lead to so many more things in our culture. So I wish it were simple. We'd say just legalize this or ban that. But I'm inclined to believe that, like everything, it's very gray. Very. 

Rich Bennett 22:51
Hmm. 

John David Graham 22:52
And at root it's it's I don't I don't say spiritual, but it it really is. It's an internal issue where we're looking for meaning. 

Rich Bennett 23:01
Yeah. 

John David Graham 23:02
We try to find it in external sources. 

Rich Bennett 23:06
So with this book, do you have any in these? Not well, I don't want to say center in the home. Air. 

John David Graham 23:17
I don't. In fact, I very rarely talk about my personal issues with our residents. 

Rich Bennett 23:24
Okay. 

John David Graham 23:25
Because what our our whole purpose there is, is to offer somebody a safe place temporarily. We are faith based. Our faith motivates us, but we don't require someone to share our faith. So the question we ask is, Are you hungry? And that's the language they really understand. 

Rich Bennett 23:48
Yeah. 

John David Graham 23:50
So now I might have a conversation about issues in my book, but never ask them to read my book. 

Rich Bennett 23:59
Right. 

John David Graham 24:00
For example, homelessness. Or better yet, how did you get here that incredibly somebody will say, well, my my father was non existent, my mother was addicted, my grandmother raised me or the foster system raised. That's now that's the idea that's in the book is this dysfunctional families put at risk for all these external issues and threat. 

Rich Bennett 24:27
With with Daniel. What was the hardest part of this book for you to write? 

John David Graham 24:37
I've read the book. I did 24 editions of it or I edited it and re-edit and re-edit. 

Rich Bennett 24:44
Wow. 

John David Graham 24:44
Spent ten years writing. So I became obsessed with this storyline and the last that it took me two years. 

Rich Bennett 24:53
Wow. 

John David Graham 24:53
And we are adding the emotional layer. But where I struggled the most was when Daniel made obvious mistakes. I went. At one point he found the family and the girl he wanted. She was a farm girl in Ohio. The family loved him. He had a job offer working as a counselor at children's home. His life was set for him. He was getting his master's degree in counseling. His life was everything he dreamed it would be. And the old flame, the one who had destroyed him in college, popped back up and tempted him. And he went with her. And he lost it all. He broke the heart of Ruthie, this beautiful farm girl. And I thought, Damn you son of a bitch! 

And I thought, Yeah. And then I realized that I've done that. And Daniel's conclusion was I complained that I railed against people who hurt me. And in. I hurt people more than others hurt me. I'm worse than my, my, my persecutors. And to realize, Daniels The sins in the world were in Daniels. What I'm saying. 

Rich Bennett 26:11
Right. 

John David Graham 26:12
But then when his he met Kate. And I won't spoil it here, but. 

Rich Bennett 26:17
Though. Yes, definitely don't. 

John David Graham 26:18
Give it another chance with Kate. But you always walk with a limp when you know that you have damage inside. 

Rich Bennett 26:26
Yeah. 

John David Graham 26:27
And that 

Rich Bennett 26:27
Wow. 

John David Graham 26:28
is very flawed, just like you and I. 

Rich Bennett 26:32
Yeah. Nobody's perfect. 

John David Graham 26:34
If they were, we couldn't live with them. 

Rich Bennett 26:37
Well that is true in actually in this because you touch on forgiveness a lot as well. Right. Which when you just told that little part, that's what I'm thinking of. Danny had to ask for forgiveness, I would think. 

John David Graham 26:51
He struggled with forgiveness. 

Rich Bennett 26:53
Okay. 

John David Graham 26:54
He said because Daniel was sexually abused as a boy and that you always care. At one point when he's 36 years old, he says, you know, you never you never really get over that. They say you do, but you don't. And it's it's like it's like a ghost is forever haunting you. And when he he had not let it go, but he had to learn. He had to learn how to live through that. And but the biggest issue there is a trauma. Without telling it again, there's a trauma that comes with tragedy in Daniel's life and the past. He struggles with forgiveness and he's helping this man coming from prison who is living with them. And the man had been 20 years in prison for something he didn't do. And he Daniel says to Charles, that's his name. How do you how do you handle that? How can you forgive people who did that to you? And so, Charles, this illiterate black man living with Daniel, this man who had a now a doctorate in counseling, he was he taught Daniel how to forgive. And so what Daniel says is that here's a man who's a fourth grade education, been in prison half his life. But he knows more about forgiveness. And I have three degrees in psychology. 

Rich Bennett 28:24
Wow. 

John David Graham 28:25
So that that that to me is the lesson that our teachers come from many, many different areas. 

Rich Bennett 28:32
Yeah. Oh, you can learn something from everybody 

but that. Oh, I love that. 

John David Graham 28:39
Daniel has learned to forget that. Good. 

Rich Bennett 28:42
Yeah. 

John David Graham 28:42
It ends well, but it's a sad well, it's like Forrest Gump where it ends with he's raising his son alone, but he still misses Jenny. 

And I'm not going to say any more. 

Rich Bennett 28:57
John. Why do you want me there? Okay, you know what? Now I feel like I have to go watch Forrest Gump. But no, I can't do that. I'm glad I'm gonna have to read the book. Finish reading the book. I should say. Actually, for those of you listening, this guy, how many pages total? 

John David Graham 29:14
It's 466. 

Rich Bennett 29:18
And it's so I got the book here, I think. I think John realized I need glasses to read because it's small print, too. So that's. 

John David Graham 29:28
You've got small eyes. I'm sorry. 

Rich Bennett 29:32
But you also got an award for this. 

John David Graham 29:34
Gotten 25, actually. 

Rich Bennett 29:38
What's. 

John David Graham 29:38
I've been very, very pleased because what happened when I started to publish this, I sent it out to agents and publishers and it was rejected 200 times. 

Rich Bennett 29:51
Wow. 

John David Graham 29:51
100 times and you begin to think that maybe it's not good. And so I ended up with a company called Don Quixote Press, because I always tilt at windmills. And Don Quixote is a small indie publisher. And what they did was they took the story itself and marketed The Passion of the story. And by putting it out to readers and putting out to reviewers who actually read it, there were all the stories coming back was I felt Daniel. I lived with Daniel. I couldn't put Daniel's story down and that's why it's gotten best Inspirational book of the Year. Best Debut Book of the Year. It's gotten fiction, literary book of the year. So 25 awards at all. I've been extremely pleased because what it tells me is that publishing is a business and many agents are only looking at the next John Grisham or Kristin Hannah. 

Rich Bennett 30:53
Yeah. 

John David Graham 30:55
What is what is socially and politically popular. And Daniel's story is it's like trying to sell Titanic. Well, you have to put in a love interest. And so. That's what we did here. We took this story of forgiveness and second chances and put in a series of love interest and made readers feel they know story. So I've been very pleased with that. 

Rich Bennett 31:23
I take it the is it the publishing company that actually put together the video? 

John David Graham 31:29
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 31:29
The trailer. 

John David Graham 31:30
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 31:30
Okay. 

John David Graham 31:31
That's a publicist I work with. She's the company fellow, Electra Fox, and she has been my. Without a question. The main name is Candice Jarrett, and she has been extraordinarily helpful because she's taught me and I'm here today because of her. 

Rich Bennett 31:51
Yeah. 

John David Graham 31:51
We're just sharing we're not talking about the book necessarily. We're talking about second chances, which is a much more important issue. 

Rich Bennett 32:00
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I mean it. Well in, in the book it. How many changes did Daniel get? 

John David Graham 32:07
Oh, my. I lost track. But I would say it mirrors my my travels to a degree. 

Rich Bennett 32:15
I'm sitting here looking at Amazon now and yeah, the reviews are outstanding, even on good reads. Oh, thank you, John. I just noticed something. It's also in audio form. 

John David Graham 32:32
Just came out. Yes. And. 

Rich Bennett 32:34
Nice. 

John David Graham 32:35
In fact, the voice after we hired my I had my granddaughter help me pick the voice actor because. 

Rich Bennett 32:43
Okay. 

John David Graham 32:44
She's, what, 13 years old? And she's probably a better writer than I am. But we picked somebody who had passion, and at the end of the four month process of. 

Recording this book. He said that he had to wrestle with his own emotions in ways that he never dreamed possible. He said doing the acting, the voice acting, changed his life. 

Rich Bennett 33:08
Really? 

John David Graham 33:09
That. That's exactly, exactly what I've been hearing in the reviews that people are feeling, Daniel. 

Rich Bennett 33:18
Has anybody reached out to you yet about the screenplay? 

John David Graham 33:24
No. And I can tell you one thing it's looking for an agent taught me was that Hollywood is a ghetto. It's quicksand. It's very. I don't think I'm smart enough to handle it. So if somebody were to write out and say, We'd like to do your story, which I think would translate well. 

Rich Bennett 33:43
Oh, absolutely. 

John David Graham 33:44
I would say that I would definitely tap my fingers after shaking hands with them and I would check my wallet every time they walk by because I hear many horror stories about people who are not taken to the cleaners, but they get they get taken advantage of. 

Rich Bennett 34:02
They're better off finding an independent film producer for that. 

John David Graham 34:06
What will happen is in the best case scenario, somebody would buy the rights and they changed the story. That's not what I want. 

Rich Bennett 34:14
Now. 

John David Graham 34:14
So I would rather keep it where it is if it's pure. 

Rich Bennett 34:19
So will there be a sequel to this book? 

John David Graham 34:22
Started. I call it Requiem, which is a remembrance for the dead. And 

Rich Bennett 34:27
Oh, 

John David Graham 34:28
I got a chapter done. But I've been so involved in the publication here, particularly podcasting. 

Rich Bennett 34:35
right. 

John David Graham 34:36
These conversations have become so animated and so intense, and I've gotten such good feedback that this is exactly what I want to do with the book is to. 

Rich Bennett 34:46
Yeah. 

John David Graham 34:47
Conversation. So I haven't been writing for the past several months because of that. But I do. 

Rich Bennett 34:54
Well, you. 

John David Graham 34:54
I miss it. 

Rich Bennett 34:56
But you're out there marketing the book. 

John David Graham 34:57
Right? Yeah. And we're talking about the issues and I'm talking about homelessness. I'm talking about drug. 

Rich Bennett 35:03
Yeah. 

John David Graham 35:04
I'm talking about families in dysfunction. I'm talking about forgiveness. So that's really what I want to do. 

Rich Bennett 35:13
Yeah. Which is important, too. Well, we cover all of that a lot, and it gets me. I still don't understand why a lot of people are afraid to talk about it. I never understood that. 

John David Graham 35:29
We humans are very good at deluding ourselves. 

Rich Bennett 35:32
Hmm. 

John David Graham 35:33
We see and others, all my fans. We've seen this. It's. 

Magnified during the political campaigns because my opponent is everything that's wrong and I'm everything that's right. And this Freud would say this projection going all over the place. 

Rich Bennett 35:51
There. 

John David Graham 35:53
Right now. What I'm finding is that these podcasts I've been doing for the past few months have been extremely 

well-received because we're talking about hope. We're talking about second chances. We're talking about giving people another opportunity. And we're not seeing that on the news. We're seeing the exact opposite. 

Rich Bennett 36:19
Because you deal with this all the time. Can you share a feel good story, an actual story of somebody you know, that has gotten a second chance and it's changed her life for the better? 

John David Graham 36:35
I probably the best example is a Jimmy. Jimmy was schizophrenic, and 

Rich Bennett 36:42
Mm hmm. 

John David Graham 36:42
because he'd been in prison in and out and he came to us when he was 67, he was homeless and he was living in his truck. And it was it was spray painted gold. So you can imagine what his mind was like. 

Rich Bennett 36:57
Right. 

John David Graham 36:57
Painted the tires, so. 

Rich Bennett 36:59
Oh, wow. 

John David Graham 37:00
I thought he was James Bond on any given day. So he came to us because he was found on a truck in the middle of winter freezing. He'd run out of gas and he was near death. So Jimmy came to us and he stayed one week, two weeks, three weeks a year. And eventually he was with us for 14 years. 

Rich Bennett 37:24
Wow. 

John David Graham 37:25
He was 81 when he eventually died in our house. And what he had said before he died was this was the only home I ever had. 

So Jimmy and Jimmy was the strangest character, but he was like Lazarus in the Bible, who is a beggar at the gate and the rich man walks by him until he meets his maker. And his maker says, Why did you walk by me at the gate? And he said, I didn't. There was only that beggar things that I that was me. So Jimmy was I think that Jimmy, like he was he was our chance to serve God. 

Rich Bennett 38:07
Yeah. And imagine if you guys would not have found him. He would not. He wouldn't have gotten in. 

John David Graham 38:14
When he was gone, he would have died. And I do give I give a lot of credit to the VA because he was a veteran. And without their help, we couldn't have done the physical part. So we coordinate with other agencies. 

Rich Bennett 38:28
Right. 

John David Graham 38:28
We only offer one thing. 

Rich Bennett 38:33
What's that? 

John David Graham 38:34
The safe housing. 

Rich Bennett 38:36
Okay. 

John David Graham 38:37
We're the housing element, but what we like to add. 

Rich Bennett 38:39
Right. 

John David Graham 38:39
Mentoring element. Not not counselling, but mentoring. 

Rich Bennett 38:45
I think you had a lot more than you think. You're adding compassion. You're adding love. There's a lot you guys are adding that I you know, I know. The housing is the main thing, but you guys are all for and you're offering them another chance. 

John David Graham 39:05
We like to think it's rehabilitation, but I'm learning that so many of our people come from suffering emotional deprivation. We're actually teaching habilitation. We're teaching skills they've never learned. For example, we start with making your bed. You make your bed in the morning because when you go off the day, you're going to be rejected for a job six times. But tonight, when you're really dragging your butt and you're discouraged and depressed, you're going to come back to your room and you're going to say, at least I did something right today. 

Rich Bennett 39:39
Yeah. 

John David Graham 39:39
This room. And that's an old Navy SEAL trick that I. 

Rich Bennett 39:43
Yep. 

John David Graham 39:44
Everybody knows that story. And it's true because you can't control getting a job, but you 

Rich Bennett 39:51
Yeah. 

John David Graham 39:51
can control making your bed at. 

Rich Bennett 39:55
Absolutely. 

John David Graham 39:56
That's how we start. And 

people ask about our success stories. And if I can help somebody stay out of jail one more day, if I can help them be safe until they can get a job, then I've done my part. 

Rich Bennett 40:12
Actually. What are some of the lessons that you've learned from the people that come to the home? 

John David Graham 40:20
I used to think that I had to teach. I had to tell people the answers. And that's why I thought being a minister for a time that I could be telling people what to do with their lives. But I've found now that my best lessons, my best sermons are when I say nothing and just listen. 

Rich Bennett 40:41
Oh. 

John David Graham 40:42
I'll give you a example. Rich I was stopped by one of my houses one morning. I just sat on the porch and three guys came out and they were sitting and I just said, you know, tell me about your family. Tell me about your. 

Rich Bennett 40:54
Right. 

John David Graham 40:55
And they did the talking. And at the end of the morning, they thanked me for listening to them. And to me, that's what it's all about. 

Rich Bennett 41:05
Yeah. 

John David Graham 41:06
I showed respect. That's what it was. And what I've learned is everybody needs and wants respect. 

Rich Bennett 41:15
Absolutely. 

John David Graham 41:15
Sometimes it's simply by giving somebody a listening ear. 

Rich Bennett 41:21
And I think a lot of people are, which I don't understand. A lot of people are afraid to listen. They'll hear you, but they won't listen. 

John David Graham 41:29
We're already thinking about our response so we can. 

Rich Bennett 41:32
Yeah. 

John David Graham 41:32
Dress it and correct you or set you on the right road. If we would just shut the hell up. 

Rich Bennett 41:39
One of the things I and this is probably one of the biggest lessons I ever learned, especially when you're talking to people. Well, you know, when you're out and about and just coming up, the perfect strangers and even your spouse just sit back. You don't have to say anything. Just sit back and listen because sometimes they just want to vent. 

John David Graham 42:03
Very hard to do, particularly today, because we're doing a lot of talking at people a lot. 

Rich Bennett 42:11
Thank you. You're right. I. 

John David Graham 42:15
I'm just exhausted. Just exhausted because everywhere I look, it was just bombastic. The talking heads are yelling over one another and drain. And I missed Dr. King. I missed that voice of reason. I grew up and a lot of my doctoral work was in studying his responses to violence. And even today, I'll listen to his sermons just to remind myself that there is hope and the arc of the moral universe does then toward justice. 

Rich Bennett 42:51
Yeah. 

John David Graham 42:51
And right now we may not think that in many corners of our country, but ultimately that history is cyclical and it tends to repeat itself good and bad. 

Rich Bennett 43:03
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean. Well, both you and I have seen it 

John David Graham 43:09
That's right. 

Rich Bennett 43:09
already with a lot of things, and it's scary, but at times it's good too, because there are some good things that have repeated itself. But all the scary ones, it's just we just we have to try to educate the younger generation. And that's hard because a lot of them don't want to listen. That's a that's a big obstacle to get past. 

John David Graham 43:35
Well, the fact that you and I are having a conversation instead of having one second series of video snaps. Because everything is so fast on the media that if my page are on my my Facebook post, the average viewership is 1.3 seconds. 

Rich Bennett 43:55
Mm hmm. 

John David Graham 43:56
It's very hard to talk about the nuances of second chances and 1.3 seconds. 

Rich Bennett 44:03
Yeah. Yeah. They actually do go out speaking to groups at all. 

John David Graham 44:08
Generally not. I haven't been invited, but I'm hesitant to do it anyway, because the truth is that you probably get much more footage with my my Facebook post might be 45 seconds or a minute. 

Rich Bennett 44:24
Right. 

John David Graham 44:24
Probably get the same message out. One thing my writing, my work as a journalist taught me was that whatever you can say in 100 words, you can probably say in ten and get the same message out. And 

Rich Bennett 44:41
Oh, 

John David Graham 44:41
because we we have a tendency to be too repetitive and 

Rich Bennett 44:47
yeah. 

John David Graham 44:48
just say what you want to say. But I'm not opposed to speaking, but I'm not sure how we would logistically do that because I'm running Good Samaritan home. 

Rich Bennett 45:00
Right. 

John David Graham 45:01
In Ohio, and I do my writing in Texas. I'm always traveling as it is. I'm in Texas right now. 

Rich Bennett 45:09
So you're always traveling back and forth between Texas and Ohio. 

John David Graham 45:11
I've been doing that since I started writing. So I got two weeks here, two weeks there. But I have great style. 

Rich Bennett 45:20
Wow. 

John David Graham 45:20
And then with the computer, of course, you can be everywhere at all times. 

Rich Bennett 45:23
Well, that's true. Yeah. 

All right. So are you driving in a truck? 

John David Graham 45:29
No, no. Actually, it's cheaper to fly. I have. 

Rich Bennett 45:33
I did. I didn't know if you missed those days of bouncing up and down in that. 

John David Graham 45:37
Actually, I do. I drove down here several times and it takes it's both like 19 hours. 

Rich Bennett 45:44
Wow. 

John David Graham 45:44
But that's straight driving and you get a little cross-eyed and you can only take so much caffeine. So I've found that I get in the cattle car to call an airplane and I grease up, slip into a seat and sit there for 3 hours. And for the same price, I can be in Texas. 

Rich Bennett 46:04
That is true. That is true. That is. And it's probably safer as well. Flying 

John David Graham 46:11
Parking 

Rich Bennett 46:11
drive 

John David Graham 46:11
is 

Rich Bennett 46:12
and. 

John David Graham 46:12
probably the only thing you have to worry about is somebody next to you like to talk. So. 

Rich Bennett 46:18
You just listen to. 

John David Graham 46:19
Yeah. Yeah. What I. 

Rich Bennett 46:21
With your eyes closed. 

John David Graham 46:22
Eyes closed. It's like the old Three Stooges. You paint your ideas like they're open. 

Rich Bennett 46:29
Oh, God, I love it. Yes. Never mind. That's a whole nother podcast. About Three Stooges still to be one of the greatest comedy groups out there. But some people just can't get into slapstick. 

John David Graham 46:42
I grew up on them. 

Rich Bennett 46:44
Oh, me too. Them Laurel and Hardy. My favorite was always the Keystone Cops. 

John David Graham 46:50
Actually, 

Rich Bennett 46:51
I. 

John David Graham 46:51
they took a great deal of acrobatic ability into that. 

Rich Bennett 46:55
Uh huh. 

John David Graham 46:55
I've heard I just read a piece about Buster Keaton that did all his own stunts. All those things you saw were not manipulated. They were literally him jumping off a roof or going being hit by a car or falling out of a moving vehicle. That was really him. 

Rich Bennett 47:14
Oh, he's awesome. I love you. I could sit there, watch silent movies all day long. Well, just the old classics, period. I could watch all day long with the book. Tell if you can tell everybody 

why it's important for them. Well, what is it that you want the readers to get from reading this book? 

John David Graham 47:39
Well, I had. 

Rich Bennett 47:40
We're listening to it. 

John David Graham 47:41
Yeah, we're listening to it. I had 181 year old man. said to me he was up till three in the morning reading the book because he couldn't stop reading. So I want people obviously have a good read, but I want them to walk away and say, 

I belong in that position. I'll be a little more tolerant the next time somebody comes to me or that that guy on the street. There's something about him. He's more than just his dirty clothes. The day or in front of Wal-Mart. You see, that guy says, Homeless. By any donation, there's more than just a sign. Where does he come from? How did he get here? And giving him $10 may not solve this problem, but maybe if you took him to lunch at McDonald's, 

then you have control that then you could listen and he could tell you what he says may or may not be true. It doesn't matter to fact check. You're simply there to say, How can I help you today? 

Rich Bennett 48:50
One of the things I learned when it comes to homelessness, once a year there's a rotating homeless shelter that we do here in the county and the one church where a lot of the homeless stay at. During that time, the church will ask people or groups to provide food, whether it be lunch or dinner. So there's a Lions Club back in the past. A lot of our members used to love the grill and we would volunteer and we'd go up there and grill food for them. And our leaders, which are young kids, would serve the food. And I loved it because the leaders learned so much. And after we were done serving, they would stay there and play games or just sit there and listen to these people talk and hear the stories. That's one of the reasons I. I joined the military. I'll never forget going to the VFW with my father and just sitting down and hearing the stories of these veterans and everything they went through. And today walking around because and well, you know, there's a lot of veterans that are homeless. And just to sit down and talk to them. Some of them don't even want shelter. They'd rather stay in a tent, you know. At least that's what they say. 

But it's just sit down and listen to them. Some of them don't get the chance for anybody to listen to them. 

John David Graham 50:28
And in today's volunteer army, they were in the army because they enlisted. 

Rich Bennett 50:33
Yes. 

John David Graham 50:33
Now I want to throw something out to you. Haven't I came out of the sixties draft 

Rich Bennett 50:38
Mm hmm. 

John David Graham 50:38
part of the story? But the draft was very real for us because of Vietnam. 

Rich Bennett 50:43
Yeah. 

John David Graham 50:44
But Nixon did away with the draft because of political machinations. He saw the wind blowing and he went with it. But what happened was there was this sense growing up that you had a moral obligation, a legal obligation. You had to allow two years that you were going to serve in the Army somewhere somehow. And so in World War Two in particular, everybody participated. It was not simply the standing Army. It was everybody's war. 

Rich Bennett 51:15
Right. 

John David Graham 51:15
I'm wondering if we should not reinstate the draft and allow not just for the army, but allow for community service. Because what I did in lieu of the draft, I did alternative service in an orphanage in Detroit. So I did my two year obligation. 

Rich Bennett 51:34
Yeah. 

John David Graham 51:34
But I had a moral objection at that time to participating in Vietnam, and that was approved. So I did what I felt to be an acceptable community service. I would like to see that again today. 

Rich Bennett 51:49
I would do community service. Without a doubt. Without a doubt. And one of the things that I'm going to say, David, is that further like in high schools, you have to do so The Graduate You have to do so many hours of community service. 

John David Graham 52:03
Right. 

Rich Bennett 52:04
But here they build it into the curriculum at school and you can and you can complete do services in school, whether it's working at a concession stand or whatever. I don't think that. I think for that you have to go out into the community and do some. 

John David Graham 52:19
Working at concession stand. You're still picking up girls. 

Rich Bennett 52:23
Exactly. Exactly. But no, I think that's the community service part. Definitely the military. It's hard to say. I mean, just from when I was in. It changed so much. I'll never forget this. Well, 911 happened. Okay. 

John David Graham 52:43
Different big. 

Rich Bennett 52:45
Right. And a lot of the people that were already in the military were complaining why I didn't sign up for this. I went to re-enlist and I was pissed because they said I was too old. 

John David Graham 52:57
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 52:59
Well, yeah, I was. You know, but you did see a lot of people enlist because they love our country and they enlist. Have to go in, I'm afraid. And I think you saw this in Vietnam with the friendly fire. If I get somebody next to me in a foxhole that's whining and complaining because they don't want to be there, are they going to have my back? That's what worries me about a draft. 

John David Graham 53:26
Maybe we have to look at World War Two as making it the perfect situation where we all came together as one. But. 

Rich Bennett 53:34
Oh, yeah. 

John David Graham 53:36
G.I. Joe was known to be a complainer to them. We just don't remember that. But maybe part of it was we came out of the Depression and 

Rich Bennett 53:45
Yeah, 

John David Graham 53:46
being in the military in 1944 was at least better than starving in the food 

Rich Bennett 53:51
that's true. 

John David Graham 53:52
kitchens in 1935. And maybe and I think my parents came out of the Depression and came out of the war. With a whole different attitude towards the community. And that's why they had so many community service clubs and gathering. And then my generation somewhere knows it, all of that. And I hold us responsible for a lot of the social decline because we became much more self centered. I want to do it for me. I don't want to do it for you. I think the greatest generation was about others, and our generation was the me generation. So I hold me accountable for that, too. 

Rich Bennett 54:37
I never thought of it that. 

John David Graham 54:39
All the things we fought for in sixties we protested for. We got them all in spades. And now. 

Rich Bennett 54:45
Yeah. 

John David Graham 54:45
Caught in social ills. 

Rich Bennett 54:48
Yeah. Huh? 

Huh? 

Wow. Yeah. I never. God, 

John David Graham 54:57
Cradle. 

Rich Bennett 54:58
I wish my father was still around so I could talk to him about that. 

John David Graham 55:02
And they never talked about the war. That was just it. It was too heinous. 

Rich Bennett 55:06
Well, that's true. Yeah. 

John David Graham 55:08
So again, we're looking for simple answers. And I think many of the things we're struggling with in isolation, for example, are non-involvement in European wars. We wrestled with that in 38. Is a great movement towards isolation from European conflict. And now we look back as a noble cause. But it was still pretty messy. 

Rich Bennett 55:32
Yeah. Yeah. And you look at everything that's going on now, especially over in the Middle East and Ukraine, it's like talking about history repeating itself again. 

John David Graham 55:42
Yeah, absolutely. Know historian but I do see 1936 in Ukraine. 

Rich Bennett 55:49
Yeah. 

John David Graham 55:50
And unfortunately, it's very easy to pontificate from the safety of my chair and I'm talking about somebody else making that physical commitment. So 

it's much more gray, unfortunately. 

Rich Bennett 56:05
Yeah. 

John David Graham 56:06
History tends to make it black and white, but it's really not. 

Rich Bennett 56:10
No, no. And the thing is, you've seen it before. A lot of people were trying to rewrite history. And you can. 

John David Graham 56:17
Oh, yeah. It's written by the victors. 

Rich Bennett 56:20
Yeah. But that's a whole nother story. 

John David Graham 56:24
We. 

Rich Bennett 56:27
Is there. Before I wrap up and ask you my last question, is there anything you would like to add? 

John David Graham 56:34
Well, you know, I think I had one fella ask me to write down some common things that I would pass on to my grandkids. And the number one thing I would pass on to anybody is that life is not a sprint. We have a tendency to think that if I haven't made my fortune in Facebook by 19 or like Mark Zuckerberg or made my Facebook fortune at 25, like Elon Musk, that 

that we are somehow a failure. But I have found that you and I, with our gray hair, may have just come into our own when we are 50, 60 or 70. And we may have 20 very productive years. And we don't need to compare ourselves to Elon Musk because he has his own demons and so does Mark Zuckerberg. But we have we run a marathon and some of us have to run very hard just to catch up to the sprinters. And then the other thing I would say is that life is written in pencil. You get a lot of second chances. So keep running. 

Rich Bennett 57:48
Ooh. You know what? I don't think I'm going to ask you another question because I love the way you just said all that. That was perfect. 

John David Graham 57:57
It's an autobiographical statement, believe me. 

Rich Bennett 58:00
Oh, man. It's I love. But it's an it's great. And I hope everybody takes that advice, too, because and give others second chances and like you said in the beginning, there's nothing wrong with even taking chances on yourself, whether it be two careers, one career, five careers. 

John David Graham 58:19
Well, that. 

Rich Bennett 58:20
Do what you love. 

John David Graham 58:21
That leads to the last thing. Be a dreamer. 

Rich Bennett 58:24
Thank you. Because I think a lot of people are trying to take our dreams away from 

John David Graham 58:30
That's right. Yeah. You go ahead and try it. So what if you fail? Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 58:34
Yeah. 

John David Graham 58:35
I'm here talking to you today. I've been doing podcast for just two months. I'm having a ball, but it scares the heck out of me because I have to set up all these technological things and. Last night I had to reset my Google password and I couldn't get into my mail today. So I feel like I'm six years old, so I have to call my granddaughter. Help me out here. 

Rich Bennett 59:00
Even though I'm a techie, John, there's still things I can't figure out 

John David Graham 59:05
I. 

Rich Bennett 59:05
and I'm lost. I'm like, What? But yet at the same time, I'll have Gen Z or millennials asking me how to do something, so. 

John David Graham 59:15
It's almost like we're an immigrant in a foreign land or we're Trump in their language. 

Rich Bennett 59:20
Exactly. John, I want to thank you so much, everybody. Once again, make sure you go to John David Grammy.com and I'll have the link in the show notes. Purchase the book running as fast as I can or do you audiobook form and after you read it, make sure you leave a full review whether it be on good good reads Amazon. I think Barnes and Noble you can wherever you can leave reviews and I know you're going to love it so why not purchase it for friends and family as well? 

John David Graham 59:52
Rich, let me say, for the fiscally prudent, they can go to the website and download some free chapters to start it off to see if they like it for free. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:02
That works, too. And I know they'll love it. John, thanks a lot. 

John David Graham 1:00:05
Thank you. Appreciate it, brother. Thank you.