How Addiction Impacted Our Family with Mia Ellis

Sponsored by Rage Against Addiction

In this Conversations with Rich Bennett episode, sponsored by Rage Against Addiction, co-hosted with Wendy Beck, Mia Ellis shares her heartfelt story about losing her sister, Dana, to a fentanyl overdose. The conversation explores the emotional toll of addiction, the struggles with mental health, and the complexities of sibling grief. Wendy and Rich discuss how addiction affects families and highlight the crucial role Rage Against Addiction plays in providing support, resources, and hope for those impacted by addiction and their loved ones.

Sponsor Message:

This episode is brought to you by Rage Against Addiction, a nonprofit organization dedicated to providing support, resources, and awareness for individuals and families affected by substance abuse. With programs designed to help both those in recovery and their loved ones, Rage Against Addiction is committed to guiding people through the recovery journey. Whether through awareness events, support groups, or recovery housing, they stand as a pillar of hope in the fight against addiction. Learn more about their life-saving work at rageagainstaddiction.org.

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Transcript

Rich Bennett 0:00
Sitting here with Wendy again. And we have a young lady on that's been on twice, three times. 

Mia Ellis 0:08
Two or three times. 

Rich Bennett 0:10
Two or three times. So now we're changing the name to conversations with Wendy and me because I'm fired. Right. 

Mia Ellis 0:18
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 0:19
They. 

Mia Ellis 0:20
You did. 

Rich Bennett 0:21
Hesitant. 

Mia Ellis 0:22
Oh. 

Rich Bennett 0:23
Karl, this is actually I this is almost like a Rage against Addiction episode because 

Wendy Beck 0:28
Well, 

Rich Bennett 0:28
all. 

Wendy Beck 0:28
it is a rage talk. 

Rich Bennett 0:29
Well, no, but I'm like, You know what I meant? 

Wendy Beck 0:33
What? 

Rich Bennett 0:34
Just like rage Against addiction itself. 

Wendy Beck 0:37
Okay? 

Rich Bennett 0:38
Because all three of us are. You 

Wendy Beck 0:39
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 0:39
two are on the staff. I'm on the board. 

Wendy Beck 0:42
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 0:42
So it's like in York, I'm shut not there, but everybody. 

Wendy Beck 0:49
Welcome to Reid's talk and conversations with the Rich Bennett, starring Rich Bennett. 

Rich Bennett 0:55
Actually, it's really. 

Wendy Beck 0:59
Cohosted by Wendy back. Today we have Mia Ellis joining us today. And this was a conversation that I was hoping that we could have in August in honor of Overdose Awareness Month. But it kind of got pushed back a little bit because life happens. And so we're going to do it today. We're 

Rich Bennett 1:18
But 

Wendy Beck 1:18
going. 

Rich Bennett 1:18
it's still important. 

Mia Ellis 1:19
It 

Wendy Beck 1:19
It is. It's very important. Mia is a board member and employee at Rage. She's part of our executive team. And one of the main things about Rage Against Addiction, everybody that's involved has been affected by addiction in some way, and that's what has bonded us together or has made us so successful. And we all have our story to tell. So today I had asked me to come in and talk about a very difficult subject, which is grief, grief of a sibling and grief of a sibling to an overdose. Hi, Mia. 

Mia Ellis 1:57
Hi, guys. 

Wendy Beck 1:58
And it's interesting enough that me and I did not know each other, but my daughter and her sister did know each other and they were friends. And that's how I got to meet Mia. And then Mia and I are still together. And unfortunately, as we all know, Kels had passed. And you can tell us a little bit about Dana, and that's what we're going to talk about today, is her addiction, your grief and your role as a mom of siblings and how you know, how you feel seeing their relationship together and like the parts that you know are going to happen for you in your life, having a sibling that's no longer here. 

Mia Ellis 2:44
Christ. 

Wendy Beck 2:44
I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Deep, deep stuff. 

Mia Ellis 2:47
Do you have tissues? 

Rich Bennett 2:48
Again. 

Mia Ellis 2:50
My sister Dana passed away about six and a half years ago, March 2018, and she and Kelsey were very good friends. And Kelsey passed away before Dana did. 

Wendy Beck 3:06
2015. 

Mia Ellis 3:07
And I know my sister was devastated. And through Kelsey and through Dana, I met Wendi and also Rachel, who is the program director for Daughters House. And Rachel actually was really helpful in trying to take care of my sister treatment. 

Wendy Beck 3:30
Yes, I remember that. 

Mia Ellis 3:32
She was a big part of my sister's life and my sister really looked up to and admired Rachel. 

But my sister did pass away on her 31st birthday from a fentanyl overdose, and that was after battling drug addiction for, I would say, about half her life. 

Wendy Beck 3:56
Yeah. So she was 31, so she probably started around age 15. 

Mia Ellis 4:00
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 4:00
Very, very. 

Mia Ellis 4:01
Very common. 

Wendy Beck 4:02
Common. For a lot of the people when when we met each other that were struggling, that that was the age group where a lot of the drug abuse started. 

Mia Ellis 4:13
She. 

Rich Bennett 4:14
Older than you. 

Mia Ellis 4:15
I was three years older. 

Rich Bennett 4:17
You're 

Mia Ellis 4:17
You're 

Rich Bennett 4:17
three. 

Mia Ellis 4:18
three years? Yes. So she was my only sibling? Yes. 

Wendy Beck 4:25
And she she struggled with some mental health issues as well. 

Mia Ellis 4:28
She did when she was a child. We kind of noticed things were a little bit off. And as she got older, we I say we but my parents, my mom and dad 

tried to get her the help that she needed. And they did everything that they could. I mean, they did everything. There's nothing that they should regret not doing. 

So I would say around 13 years old, she was diagnosed with bipolar disorder. And then. 

Wendy Beck 5:02
And that's young to be diagnosed, because I know a lot of times they won't diagnosed until they're older. 

Mia Ellis 5:07
Yes, she was having some significant behavioral issues, mental issues, emotional issues, and through a lot of doctor's appointments, psychiatric appointments, counseling appointments. 

I really don't remember much about that time because I guess I was 16 and she was 13. And, you know, at that age, you really don't care what's going on at home. I was more concerned about hanging out with my friends, driving my car, going to school, doing my own thing. 

Rich Bennett 5:42
Mm. 

Mia Ellis 5:42
Mm hmm. So I don't remember much about that time. But I do remember it was it was very tough on all of us, for sure. And then she started, I think, abusing the medication that she was given for her bipolar disorder. 

Wendy Beck 5:59
Okay. 

Mia Ellis 6:00
And then when she was maybe 15, well, maybe 16, she was in a car accident and given prescription pain pills. And that was during the time when physicians were handing out Oxy and Hummers, like almost like candy. And they did not inform anybody about the addiction risks, because I don't really think that they knew the pharmaceutical companies at the time didn't really explain it to physicians, and physicians had no idea. And a lot of her friends were kind of doing all that kind of stuff to. 

Wendy Beck 6:35
It was very common and honestly was I think it became that. I mean, honestly, that was the catalyst because like you said, the drug companies were, you know, just coming out with this kind of stuff. It was starting to be abused by people and. 

Mia Ellis 6:49
They were just saying it to make money. That's it. They. 

Wendy Beck 6:50
Well. We had a lot of injuries that start. Addiction starts with injury. Now, she had a little bit of a perfect storm. She 

Mia Ellis 6:59
She did. 

Wendy Beck 7:00
had the mental health. Then she was abusing that that those drugs. And then she went on to something a little bit different when she got injured. So that's, again, not uncommon. 

Rich Bennett 7:11
No. Do you know what the medication was for? The bipolar? 

Mia Ellis 7:17
She was on a host of different medications. 

Rich Bennett 7:20
More than one. 

Mia Ellis 7:22
Yeah. Because when you're when you're bipolar and I'm not a medical expert here, so I could be wrong on this. And times have certainly changed. But when you have mental health struggles, at least back then, the doctors kind of just threw medication at you and hoped it worked. 

Rich Bennett 7:39
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 7:39
They're trying to find the right cocktail, to be honest. 

Rich Bennett 7:42
Exactly. 

Wendy Beck 7:42
They 

Rich Bennett 7:42
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 7:42
are like, is it anxiety? Is it depression? Should we give anxiety medicine? Should 

Mia Ellis 7:46
Right. 

Wendy Beck 7:46
we get depressed about 

Mia Ellis 7:47
And 

Wendy Beck 7:47
it? 

Mia Ellis 7:47
certain medical. 

Wendy Beck 7:48
Combination. 

Mia Ellis 7:49
Certain medications have side effects. So if this medication's not working, we're going to take you off of that and try something else, or maybe two or three medications, interact poorly with each other. So it's kind of like figuring out a puzzle and everybody's different. And, you know, when you go on medication, when you're young, as you grow, your weight changes, your height changes, your hormones change, and that can affect how the medication works or doesn't work for you. 

Wendy Beck 8:17
And I want to be honest, you know, a lot of people think that that medication is the the bandaid that goes on, the mental health problem that's going to fix it. It's going to cover it up, it's going to hide it, and then, you know, everything's going to be okay. And I think as of as there's so many more studies now with people who have anxiety and depression and ultimately bipolar disorder, that there's so many other types of I don't want to use the word remedies, but. 

Mia Ellis 8:45
Combinations of things. 

Rich Bennett 8:46
Yeah, well. 

Mia Ellis 8:49
Medication. But you should also be going to therapy. You should also be getting your medication monitored by doctors. You should have a great support system. 

And again, you know, when my sister was younger, we really didn't know that. 

Rich Bennett 9:04
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 9:04
And it's not always that easy to get 

Mia Ellis 9:05
Get 

Wendy Beck 9:05
them 

Mia Ellis 9:05
them 

Wendy Beck 9:05
to 

Mia Ellis 9:05
to. 

Wendy Beck 9:05
cooperate. 

Mia Ellis 9:07
It's not. And even now, the mental health system is kind of tough because if you're in a mental health crisis and you go to a mental health facility, there's a waitlist. If beds aren't open, there's a waitlist. A lot of facilities aren't affordable to the average person. So there's a lot of obstacles to overcome. It's not like. It's not like going to the emergency room complaining of chest pains. Right. They'll see you. They'll give you a bed. They'll treat you for a heart attack. They'll do these tests. When you're suffering from a mental health crisis. Anxiety. Whatever. 

It's not as easy to get the help that you need. 

Wendy Beck 9:53
Well in the crisis situation, I've noticed as well there. They're there to kind of like stabilize and almost contain the person because the family doesn't know what else to do. But they're usually given paperwork to go 

Mia Ellis 10:07
Follow 

Wendy Beck 10:07
and follow 

Mia Ellis 10:07
up. 

Wendy Beck 10:08
up with someone else unrelated and they walk out of there. Not really any better than they were. And then to get someone to follow up. Families to convince them to do that. That's a whole nother story. 

Mia Ellis 10:23
The long time. The long term picture for people suffering from mental health disorders is kind of bleak. If you don't have the correct resources because kind of like Wendy said, it's up to the individual to want help. If the family doesn't know where to turn or if they don't have the money to pay for the assistance, then things kind of fall through the cracks. And it's a vicious cycle. 

Wendy Beck 10:48
I know things have gotten better and I. Correct me if I'm wrong, and any listener that has this information that can let Rich know if I'm a writer or not. I believe that you are. You can be as young as 12 years old to decide whether or not you want help. Your parents do not have permission to force that on you. So if you're not 

willing to get help and again, I might be. 

Rich Bennett 11:19
Think I've heard that before. 

Wendy Beck 11:20
It's as young as 12 years old to be able to make that to. 

Rich Bennett 11:23
Yeah, I think so. 

Wendy Beck 11:23
For yourself. So that you think about it. That's right. When you're starting to, like, have a mind of your own. And, you know, a lot of times people don't like medication because it doesn't make them feel like themselves 

Mia Ellis 11:36
Yes. 

Wendy Beck 11:36
and they are not used to that feeling. 

Rich Bennett 11:40
Medication doesn't work for everybody. 

Wendy Beck 11:42
No, it doesn't. 

Rich Bennett 11:43
I mean, it could be as simple as a therapist. It could be the holistic approach. It could be. There's so many different things. And it's it's kind of scary. I was talking to a friend of mine the other day and that was diagnosed with bipolar, and they've been treating her for bipolar for years, for years kind of finance. She was misdiagnosed. ADHD. 

Wendy Beck 12:10
No, I believe it. 

Rich Bennett 12:11
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 12:12
I believe it 100%. 

Rich Bennett 12:13
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 12:14
And so, you know, going back to Dana, she's she started to use drugs to kind of cope with whatever was going on. Did she have any trauma? 

Mia Ellis 12:25
She did? Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 12:26
And I think that that is a catalyst sometimes that induces some of the bipolar disorder symptoms. And again, I'm not a medical professional, but seeing and talking and being in this arena with a lot of people, you know, you kind of get your information piecemeal, but it all starts to come together 

Rich Bennett 12:43
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 12:43
as one big puzzle, like you said. 

Mia Ellis 12:46
Yeah, It's not uncommon for people to use prescription drugs or even street drugs to cope with a trauma. And that's the sad part because society kind of looks at people struggling with addiction as individuals who choose that life. They look at them as people who should be able to just snap their fingers and stop. 

They you know, they don't understand the back story. And if you talk to anybody who's struggled with alcoholism or drug abuse, I would safely say that a majority of them have experienced some kind of trauma, whether that's sexual trauma. 

Physical or emotional abuse by spouses parents. 

Anybody. And, you know, if if there's not the right resources to get help or if the individual is too scared to speak up, then they cope in the only way they know how, and that's through medication. So the medication might help somebody numb out their feelings. Right. It might help somebody, quote unquote, feel better, but it's putting a Band-Aid on something that needs more serious treatment. 

And, you know, kind of the ladies that we've talked to, Wendy, a lot of them have experienced trauma as well. And it's just kind of a sad thing, you know, And it's kind of it goes back to what you guys were saying is even medication taken properly is not the one size fits all. 

Rich Bennett 14:29
Right. 

Mia Ellis 14:30
And I think years ago a lot of the treatment facilities for addiction only tried to fix addiction. They did not really focus on the mental health side. They did not focus on the trauma side. 

Wendy Beck 14:43
We're coming of age for that. 

Mia Ellis 14:45
Yes. 

Wendy Beck 14:45
A lot. 

Mia Ellis 14:46
So there's been improvements for sure. But 

Wendy Beck 14:48
Incorporating 

Mia Ellis 14:48
it's a Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 14:49
the mental health piece as well. 

Mia Ellis 14:51
Like a dual diagnosis. 

Wendy Beck 14:52
Yeah. Or just just providing resources for both. 

Mia Ellis 14:56
Yup. Because they go hand in hand. 

Rich Bennett 14:58
Yeah. I never even thought. 

Mia Ellis 15:00
All about that part. 

Rich Bennett 15:01
We're as I mean, back in the day. Yeah, they're trying to treat one thing. 

Mia Ellis 15:06
And it's not working. It's. 

Rich Bennett 15:07
Not. 

Wendy Beck 15:08
A lot of the ladies in our houses, you know, are recommended to do therapy as well. If they come in and, you know, they've had their their detox and their 30 days and now they're in the house and they're doing the thing, but, you know, they're still not. Okay. So we'll recommend some type of therapy. And honestly, the ones that take full advantage of that tend to come out on the other side better off. 

Mia Ellis 15:33
Because it is uncomfortable to sit with your deep feelings. I mean, even for those of us who don't struggle with addiction, you know, nobody wants to feel sad. Nobody wants to feel, man. Nobody wants to dig deep and feel. But you have to feel these things to process them and you have to feel these things to recover from them. And that's where a therapist or a counselor and a support network is very beneficial. 

Rich Bennett 15:59
Mm hmm. 

Mia Ellis 16:00
And I would encourage anybody to go see a therapist or a counselor just 

Wendy Beck 16:06
And for, 

Mia Ellis 16:06
to that. 

Wendy Beck 16:06
you know, for those who, you know, start using, you know, drugs and alcohol recreationally. And then it it gets to a point of abuse. I want to I want to point out something that drug addiction can also cause trauma because it will take people in places where 

Mia Ellis 16:25
Yup. 

Wendy Beck 16:26
they definitely would not go voluntarily had they not been in the mindset that they were in 

Mia Ellis 16:30
Yup. 

Wendy Beck 16:31
when they're actively using. So that is another layer. So we have all of these layers that, you know, we have to teach people how to heal. And, you know, it's hard. And when Dana was going through a lot of that, there wasn't the resources. So there's this whole generation of Dana and my daughter and a lot of people in this area that lost around that time that they they didn't get a fighting chance. 

Rich Bennett 16:56
Right. 

Wendy Beck 16:57
And so now, you know, with the the recovery community that we have, we're seeing with evidence based, you know, practices that this kind of stuff works. Now, I know that she was she was 31, but she lived with your parents pretty much her whole her whole life. 

Mia Ellis 17:14
She had yet. 

Wendy Beck 17:14
And did she did she you know, did she go to school or did she work or what was what was she like? You know? 

Mia Ellis 17:22
She had bits and pieces of employment. I remember she at some point was a student at Harvard Community College. She also had an interest in becoming an EMT and she spent a little bit of time at the Charleston Fire Department. I don't recall how old she was, but I do know that she did some, I guess, volunteer hours there. Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 17:48
I didn't even know that. 

Mia Ellis 17:49
Yeah, she did. And my favorite thing that she did was volunteer her time at the Harford County Humane Society, and she was the official title was Cat Cutler. 

That was her 

Wendy Beck 18:05
Oh, 

Mia Ellis 18:06
title. 

Wendy Beck 18:07
there's nothing wrong with that. 

Mia Ellis 18:08
I know. I think it's adorable. 

Rich Bennett 18:10
Here is I very. 

Wendy Beck 18:12
Her official title. 

Mia Ellis 18:13
Yeah, that's, that's what it was called. 

Rich Bennett 18:16
I think somebody took her spot to. Right. 

Mia Ellis 18:19
And that's when the Harford County Humane Society was the old building. It's not 

Rich Bennett 18:23
Right. 

Mia Ellis 18:23
where. But she would go up there and volunteer with the cats. 

Rich Bennett 18:26
That's 

Mia Ellis 18:26
She 

Rich Bennett 18:26
all. 

Mia Ellis 18:27
would spend time with them. She would change their litter box. She would literally take 

Wendy Beck 18:31
And she had 

Mia Ellis 18:32
a. 

Wendy Beck 18:32
cats as well, 

Mia Ellis 18:33
Yeah, 

Wendy Beck 18:33
Right. 

Mia Ellis 18:33
She would take him out of their kennels and cuddle him and the two cats that showed up in our family. Dancer in Rocco were strays. Dancer she rescued from the Humane Society, where she volunteered. 

Rich Bennett 18:51
Right. 

Mia Ellis 18:52
Rocco. Literally showed up one night at my parent's house in a thunderstorm. 

Rich Bennett 18:59
Oh, wow. 

Mia Ellis 19:00
And my sister brought them inside. I was only supposed to be for a day or two, and he lived there for about. 

Rich Bennett 19:05
He moved in. 

Mia Ellis 19:06
In years. 

Rich Bennett 19:07
Wow. 

Mia Ellis 19:08
Yeah. So she had a really big spot in her heart for animals. And I think that's what I miss the most. Is she. She. She loved the stray animals because they were broken and lost and she knew what that felt like. 

Wendy Beck 19:25
Right. I mean, I know you guys aren't you weren't that far apart in age, but I guess 13 to 16, that that's you know, that's a time where there's big differences. 

Rich Bennett 19:37
But yeah. 

Mia Ellis 19:37
Oh, definitely. 

Wendy Beck 19:38
And there's and I can imagine that there was like, I don't know, I don't want to say there was conflict in the home because I'm not I'm not saying that there was I don't know. But there was probably like some kind of divide because I would imagine your parents treated her very differently than she they treated you. 

Mia Ellis 19:56
Yes. Being three years apart when we were really young was not that big a deal because we were in for a few grades in elementary school together. We were interested in the same things. Barbies, baby dolls, playing school. Obviously, I went to middle school first and then I went to high school first. And there just becomes a natural shift. And I see it in my own girls now 

when it's, you know, hitting the teenage years and your younger sibling is not quite there yet. 

Wendy Beck 20:25
They're still in elementary school 

Mia Ellis 20:26
Right. 

Wendy Beck 20:26
and. You're. 

Mia Ellis 20:28
Or, you know, I'm I'm now, you know, in ninth grade and she's now in sixth grade and she's an annoying little middle schooler to me. 

Rich Bennett 20:36
Or even in high school. 

Mia Ellis 20:37
Yeah, I'm a senior and she's an annoying little freshman. So there is definitely the the natural shift. And, you know, we became closer, I guess, after we both got out of our our teens. 

Rich Bennett 20:52
Mm. 

Wendy Beck 20:54
But she was struggling at that time. 

Mia Ellis 20:55
Yes, she was. She. 

Wendy Beck 20:56
How was that? How did that feel to you? Because I know that there's this, you know, story that I hear a lot from people who have siblings that are addicted or, you know, had substance use disorder issues. And it can't be easy. 

Mia Ellis 21:14
It wasn't easy. It was very difficult for me and for my mom and my dad and obviously for her. Again, like I said before, you know, when I was a teenager, like any teenager, my life was about me, 

Rich Bennett 21:29
You. 

Mia Ellis 21:29
me, me. And she was just the typical annoying little sister. So that's how I looked at her problems. I didn't 

understand. Nor really care 

Rich Bennett 21:42
Right. 

Mia Ellis 21:43
that they were bigger. I just knew that there was something going on, 

and I wish I had a better understanding then, because I feel like I could have been a better support for her. 

Wendy Beck 21:59
Did your parents understand what was going on with her? Did they know about the drug abuse? I mean, they knew they knew the mental health issues. They tried to help, you know, as best that they could. But did they understand? The whole 

codependent, not codependency and enabling and all of that kind of stuff. And the reason that I'm asking and I'm not saying anything about them is because a lot of parents don't know that. 

Mia Ellis 22:22
They knew what they knew, if that makes sense. 

Rich Bennett 22:25
Yeah. 

Mia Ellis 22:26
They knew what she told them. They knew in her actions. They knew in her words, they knew in her behavior. But she also hit a lot of things, which is very typical of people struggling with addiction. And, you know, as she got older, 17, 18, 19, I mean, 18 years old, you're old. You know, you're responsible for yourself. 

So, you know, it came a point where she didn't really want to take the medication that she was supposed to be taking for her bipolar disorder 

because she was an adult. She didn't have to go to these appointments. She could kind of do what she wanted. And the thing about addiction is, you know, it lies to you and mental illness lies to you, and it convinces you that you don't have a problem. So in her eyes, her problem wasn't anything to be concerned about. Whereas my parents view, it was very obvious that there is a lot going on. 

Wendy Beck 23:35
And as you got older, did you start to realize that you're no longer, you know, just seeing, you know, yourself as the teenager, but you're seeing what's happening with the dynamics of the family? And how did that affect you and how does that still affect you today? 

Mia Ellis 23:50
Yeah, the dynamics definitely changed. 

I have always been very independent, even from a young age. I don't like asking for help. I sometimes put too much on my plate and then get burnt out. And that's how it was growing up, because I knew that my parents were literally bending over backwards to just do anything and everything to get my sister the help that she needed and the help that she deserved. 

Rich Bennett 24:19
You had to grow up fast. 

Mia Ellis 24:20
Yeah. And I look at it this way as an adult, you know, in hindsight of 2020. If she were struggling with a physical issue, if she had chemo. 

Wendy Beck 24:33
Diabetes or something. 

Mia Ellis 24:34
Or diabetes or if she was permanently disabled. I wouldn't look back at my parents and say, Well, you shouldn't have helped her. Right. I mean, now that I'm a mom, I have two wonderful girls and I know I would give my life for them to make them happy and healthy and safe. And I know any parent would. 

Wendy Beck 24:56
And that's what they were doing. 

Mia Ellis 24:58
And that's what my parents were doing. 

Rich Bennett 25:00
I'm glad you explained it that way, because a lot of people don't realize with addiction and a mental illness, it's it's still like a disease. 

Mia Ellis 25:12
It's a sickness, 

Rich Bennett 25:12
It's 

Mia Ellis 25:12
for 

Rich Bennett 25:12
literally 

Mia Ellis 25:12
sure. 

Rich Bennett 25:13
like. Yeah, like. 

Mia Ellis 25:13
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 25:13
As a disease. Yes. 

Rich Bennett 25:15
And if somebody is physically. 

Mia Ellis 25:17
We disabled. 

Rich Bennett 25:19
Then, yeah, you're 

Wendy Beck 25:19
You're. 

Rich Bennett 25:19
going to take care. Then the parents are going to take care of them. It's got to be the same way. The. 

Mia Ellis 25:24
Absolutely. 

Rich Bennett 25:25
And a lot of people don't realize that. 

Mia Ellis 25:27
Absolutely. 

And again, kind of what you were saying, it's it's sad that society doesn't view it that way. 

Rich Bennett 25:33
Yeah. 

Mia Ellis 25:35
And a lot of times if a child and I say child, whether it's a teenager or an adult. But a lot of times when a child is struggling with alcohol abuse or drug abuse, society blames the parents. Right. And. 

Wendy Beck 25:53
Maybe before. Not so much now. I mean. 

Mia Ellis 25:56
Back then they did. Now, like we said, things I think are improving. But if your child is struggling, then you must be a negligent parent. Right. You must not. 

Wendy Beck 26:06
Believe me, I got it. 

Mia Ellis 26:07
Yeah, I know. 

Wendy Beck 26:08
You become ashamed of their behavior. You 

Mia Ellis 26:11
To reflect. 

Wendy Beck 26:11
don't. 

Mia Ellis 26:12
You feel it's a reflection. 

Wendy Beck 26:13
Do you feel like it's a reflection on you or you start to isolate so you're no longer the person that you're meant to be in this life? Not only their parent and this individual now you're carrying a lot of shame and you're carrying a lot of shame and you hide it and you keep yourself protected. You keep your circle small and you start to become I don't want to say part of the problem, but you do. You start to make excuses for them. You know, if they can't show up or they're sitting there and they're nodding out or they're doing this or that, I mean, you you're always going to be protective of your child, even when what they're doing is hard to explain to other people. 

Mia Ellis 26:56
Yeah, definitely. And it's you know, as a parent, I imagine it's very hard to accept as well. 

Wendy Beck 27:01
It is. It is. It's very hard to accept because your natural instinct is to fix it 

Mia Ellis 27:06
Oh, yeah. 

Wendy Beck 27:06
or to give the suggestion that's going to make them fix it. And when you I used to always say, how do I inspire the uninspired rebel? And I know that that sounds really weird, but I was like, I just felt like, why can't I motivate her to do what she needs to do for herself? But I wasn't motivating her. I was motivating a disease. I was motive. Trying to motivate a drug. Pretty much a. 

Rich Bennett 27:37
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 27:38
And it was really hard for me because, you know, like, you mean, like we're fixers were you know, we like to do things by the book. We're going to research. If, 

Mia Ellis 27:47
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 27:47
you know, you have a broken toe, this is what we're going to do. 

Mia Ellis 27:49
Absolutely. 

Wendy Beck 27:50
So. 

Mia Ellis 27:51
And I know, you know, again, as a parent, you would do literally anything. And I know you know this too, Rich. I mean, you have grown kids, but even now you would do anything. 

Wendy Beck 28:03
Yes, and we do. I mean, and that's it's not a burden, but it is it's kind of like our cross to bear to to take care of our children, you know? And it is. 

Rich Bennett 28:13
No, no, you're. You're right. 

Wendy Beck 28:14
He is. And I and I do it gladly because it's my role, it's my job, It's my responsibility 

Mia Ellis 28:20
And kind of what I said earlier, you know, mental health, mental illness and addiction lies to the person 

Wendy Beck 28:25
versus. 

Mia Ellis 28:26
suffering. Right. So the mindset that Dana was in, the mindset that Kelsey was in. Was very different from the outsiders perception. So in their mind, they weren't sick, they didn't have a disease. There's nothing wrong with them. So why are these people coming at me giving me all of these suggestions to help me? It does. Why are they coming at me with all of these suggestions of what I should do? Because in my mind, there's nothing wrong with everybody else's crazy. 

Rich Bennett 28:53
Mm hmm. 

Wendy Beck 28:54
Well, and let's let's take a look at it this way, which when they're starting to use at age 15, when they're starting to abuse their drugs at age 13, whether they're prescribed or not. Their growth is stunted. So now you're think you're talking to a 17 year old, but you're talking to a 13 year old. 

Rich Bennett 29:16
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 29:16
Very, very different. And even. You can. You can catch up. I've seen it. I've seen the ladies in the houses where all of a sudden, you know, the drug use stops. They might be a little more immature than the average, you know, person on the street that did not have that struggle. But they can catch up when they when they start so young and they're struggling for such a long time, like Dana and Kelsey both did. Your your progress is so slow in 

Rich Bennett 29:48
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 29:48
trying to get them up to speed, especially when you have these good moments and then you they go back again and then you have a couple steps forward and then they go back again. So we're constantly it's like the parents are like dealing with this yo yo and I just remember people would be like, Oh, how's how's she doing? And I'll be like, Oh, she's doing really good. But that meant that we had a good two days. 

Rich Bennett 30:11
Yeah. 

Mia Ellis 30:12
It's relative. 

Wendy Beck 30:12
Yeah, we had a good two days. And you know what? She ate dinner with us, and we actually watched a movie, and life was freaking good. 

Mia Ellis 30:20
But to the average mom and dad, they wouldn't understand that. 

Wendy Beck 30:23
No, no, because everybody's seeing on the outside, like, why that family's that family's got issues, what's going on, you know, And that's hard. And like, that can make me cry because it's like, you know, you don't have anybody to talk to about it. 

Mia Ellis 30:39
I think that's one thing we do. It's good with rage. 

Is we have these conversations. And I think the thing that has improved since losing my sister and even since she first started with her addiction, I think people are more inclined to talk about it. 

There's way more families out there than we can imagine who are struggling with some sort of mental health crisis or drug or alcohol crisis. And my hope is that just doing a podcast or doing events or whatever we do here, rage. Can help families feel less alone. Because I think that's the worst thing to feel is isolated. 

Wendy Beck 31:25
It's a bad place. 

Rich Bennett 31:26
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 31:26
It really is. 

Mia Ellis 31:27
It's not something that you would call up your friend and say, Hey, do you want to go out for coffee? And you meet your friend for coffee and they start talking about their child who's successful in college 

Wendy Beck 31:36
Yeah. 

Mia Ellis 31:37
or who got their first job. And then you turn around, you say, Oh, well, I had my daughter was around for two days. We had a great movie night. But now I don't know where she is. 

Wendy Beck 31:44
Right. 

Mia Ellis 31:44
It's not it's not an easy conversation to have. 

Rich Bennett 31:46
No, it's not. 

Wendy Beck 31:47
And people can't relate. They cannot relate 

Rich Bennett 31:49
No. 

Wendy Beck 31:49
if they don't do not have experience in that type of situation. They do not know how to relate to you and their and 

Mia Ellis 31:58
And 

Wendy Beck 31:58
they 

Mia Ellis 31:58
they. 

Wendy Beck 31:58
honestly, they try to stay away and. 

Rich Bennett 32:01
Which is a big mistake. 

Wendy Beck 32:02
Which is a big mistake because I can count the people that were in my corner and there wasn't that many. So I can imagine your parents felt the same way. 

Rich Bennett 32:10
Anything is true. And I've said this before. You know, if a friend reaches out because you know their child is going through something or even if they're going through something, if you don't know what to say. 

Wendy Beck 32:21
Say you don't know what you said. 

Rich Bennett 32:22
Right. But sit there and listen. You know, sometimes. Sometimes you just want to talk and. And. And vent or express your feelings. 

Mia Ellis 32:32
Absolutely. 

Rich Bennett 32:33
You just want somebody to listen. And that's that's a big thing that's missing. A lot of people are afraid to listen. 

Wendy Beck 32:39
Well in the in the life coaching world because I took some life coaching courses. You know, it's it's called Holding space for someone. 

Rich Bennett 32:45
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 32:46
And we don't typically listen to listen, we listen to respond. But when you can hold space for someone in some very, you know, traumatic or relevant times in their life, you're giving them a gift. They don't always need your advice. 

Mia Ellis 33:04
I'm learning that with my daughter now. She's she's in middle school. And, you know, the typical middle school angst is going on. And she said to me actually recently, Mom, I don't need you to make it better, which broke my heart, because as a mom, you just. You just want to put a. I want to give her a hug and say everything's okay, like when she was a toddler. But what I've learned with both of my kids is sometimes they just want to sit next to you and cry. And the less I talk, the better. And I'm a talker. So that was really hard for me to unlearn. And I'm not perfect. I have a lot of growing to do with this new chapter in my life, but 

I've heard that term before. Holding space. 

Wendy Beck 33:49
They're very good teachers. And I'll tell you, like I have, I have been in that arena myself where all of these things that I thought I was doing that were like just instinctively know, like if someone's crying, oh, don't worry about it, or it'll be okay. And like you said, just let me feel my emotions. And I feel like that's a very different generation that what we went through. Because I'm going to be honest with you, I didn't talk to my parents about my feelings at all. They didn't ask. 

Mia Ellis 34:18
They didn't know to. 

Wendy Beck 34:19
Yeah, they didn't. 

Mia Ellis 34:20
The thing not to do. It was sweep things under the rug and they just go away, you know? 

Wendy Beck 34:26
Right. And they don't. They're like the layers of the onion that just keep, 

Mia Ellis 34:29
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 34:29
you know, keep keep laying on top of the other problem. 

Mia Ellis 34:33
My girls are two very emotional girls. 

Wendy Beck 34:35
I think all girls. 

Mia Ellis 34:36
Yes, they 

Wendy Beck 34:37
All. 

Mia Ellis 34:37
are. And they definitely take after me with with that. But, 

you know, I do have to kind of laugh because their emotions kind of get the best of them, the good ones and the bad ones. And, you know, I tell them every now and then you just need a good cry. Like a good cry is very. 

Rich Bennett 34:56
I feel so good. So. 

Mia Ellis 34:57
It does. 

Rich Bennett 34:58
Yes, I said that. 

Wendy Beck 34:59
Sobbing. 

Rich Bennett 35:00
Because do it to. 

Mia Ellis 35:01
Does. 

Rich Bennett 35:02
Though. I mean, it's. 

Mia Ellis 35:04
It's a good release. 

Rich Bennett 35:05
Yeah. Yeah. And I mean. 

Be the shoulder for somebody to cry on. 

Wendy Beck 35:13
Let them scream it out. Let 

Rich Bennett 35:14
Sometimes 

Wendy Beck 35:14
them. 

Rich Bennett 35:15
the best advice is just sitting there being quiet. 

Mia Ellis 35:19
And, you know, as a parent, that's hard to do. 

Wendy Beck 35:21
It is. It is because we want to fix 

Rich Bennett 35:23
Do. 

Wendy Beck 35:23
it. We. 

Mia Ellis 35:23
Also, you can see the end. 

Rich Bennett 35:24
To. 

Mia Ellis 35:25
You can see the end result When they come to you with a problem, you can see the end result. What if you just do this? Everything will be okay. 

Rich Bennett 35:33
Mm. 

Mia Ellis 35:34
But you have to let them figure things out on their own, which again, I'm learning how to do. I'm not a fan of doing that, But but they have to learn and they have to grow. And, you know, I guess because knowing what my sister went through a lot of things, again, she didn't tell my parents and. 

Wendy Beck 35:56
Did she confide in you? Did you have that type of relationship? 

Mia Ellis 35:59
When we are older, Not during our teen years, I would say maybe. We're both out of our teenage. You began to kind of talk to me about things, and that's where I kind of started. 

Feeling guilty. Because she would tell me certain things and I would look back and I would say, Oh, I remember that moment, but I didn't know what was going on in that moment. Right. And had I been more sympathetic, had I been more understanding, 

maybe things would have gone a different way. But I also can't blame myself because I, too, was a typical teenager. 

Rich Bennett 36:37
Mm. 

Mia Ellis 36:37
You know, again, I've said this several times, but, you know, when you're a teenager, like you don't care about anything but yourself and your friends. 

Rich Bennett 36:46
A lot of times to the younger sibling won't open up. 

Mia Ellis 36:50
I mean my my older brother. Was that 

Rich Bennett 36:52
Best friend of my idol and I talked 

Mia Ellis 36:54
to. 

Rich Bennett 36:54
to him. About almost everything. All. 

Mia Ellis 36:58
Almost. 

Rich Bennett 36:59
Everything. 

Mia Ellis 37:00
But 

Rich Bennett 37:00
There 

Mia Ellis 37:00
there. 

Rich Bennett 37:00
are some things that I've never. Talk to him about. And of course, now that he's not here, I kick myself in the ass because I wish he was here for me to talk about, say, you know, but. What? Do you have listened? Well, nowadays he probably would. 

Mia Ellis 37:18
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 37:18
Younger he would prize. He'd shut the hell up. 

Mia Ellis 37:22
Right. And I mean, that's just a typical sibling dynamic, whether whether one is struggling or not. Like, you know, my own kids, they squabble a lot and one knows more than the other and. They, you know, but at the end of the day, they have a very good relationship and they can mess with each other. But if somebody messes with one, it really angers the other one. And I hope that continues when they get older. And, you know, I hear them laughing and hanging out together and they both have bits and pieces of my sister in them. So it's kind of bittersweet for sure. We used to go to the beach a lot when we were younger, and now as a family we go to the beach. So when I see them, when they were younger, especially playing in the sand or going boogie boarding together. 

It makes me happy. The first time we went to the beach after my sister passed away. She passed away in March of 2018. We went to the beach, June. 2018 and a see my girls play at the beach. I sat behind my big sunglasses and just cried my eyes out. They were not happy tears. I'll be honest with you, I cried so bad I actually had to get up. And take a walk on the beach by myself because it was. 

Wendy Beck 38:39
Ugly. Ugly. 

Mia Ellis 38:40
It was ugly cry. 

And it was kind of like watching the two of them, but with my face and my sister's face on it. 

Wendy Beck 38:51
Well, And, you know, I want to I want to kind of go back to the grief now, because sibling grief is is a little bit, you know, different. And you and I have talked about this before. And when you have aging parents, you know, now you don't have a sibling to share. Or, you know, I know you lost your dad, but you don't have that person that has your back in this situation. And and I know, like, it can make you angry and or it can make you sad or it can make you overwhelmed. And I'm sure a lot of people, because our our siblings are like our first best friends. 

Mia Ellis 39:26
Yeah. I've told my girls that a lot. You know. When they die, it's not so bad anymore. But when they were younger and they would squabble and they would say things like, Gosh, I wish you weren't around, that likes that stabs me in the heart, 

Rich Bennett 39:40
Yeah. 

Mia Ellis 39:40
man. And I've pulled them both to the side. I said, Look, it's normal to get frustrated with your sister. It's normal to say, Hey, I don't want to hang out with you right now, but do you not say that to each other? I said, because I can tell you how. How horrible it is to not have a sibling. And I would do anything, anything to have one more argument with my son. 

Wendy Beck 40:02
No. 

Mia Ellis 40:02
I really would. And I know that sounds weird. But I would 

Rich Bennett 40:07
Not 

Mia Ellis 40:07
do anything. 

Rich Bennett 40:07
at all. Now, it doesn't sound weird at all. I can. 

Mia Ellis 40:13
I. 

Rich Bennett 40:13
I mean, I can just. I can't even tell you how many times I've picked up my phone getting ready to call my brother because. 

Mia Ellis 40:21
Out of habit. 

Rich Bennett 40:22
Yes, I'll do. 

Mia Ellis 40:24
My sister called me. 

Rich Bennett 40:25
Me. It was a few weeks ago. Tell me about a friend of ours who passed away. So call me Sherry. Hear anything about this? I mean, I better call down, right? 

Mia Ellis 40:36
You're like, No, I can't. 

Rich Bennett 40:37
Yeah. Yeah. It's weird. 

It's so. No, it's fun. I mean, it happens. It's going to continue to happen. I'm sure there's still times where you probably just like, Oh, no. 

Mia Ellis 40:55
Yeah, I do. And you know, now that my oldest is almost 13, my my sister was really into makeup and hair. In clothes, and she was way more fashionable than I ever was. 

And my youngest is really into hair and makeup, and she'll do my hair and she'll do my makeup. And I just look at both of them, I'm thinking. You're and Dana would think this is the coolest thing. 

Wendy Beck 41:21
Right? 

Mia Ellis 41:21
That you guys are old enough to wear makeup and you guys know how to do hairstyles. My sister would be probably over there all the time, just showing them different makeup styles and different hairstyles. And I just think about like, she'd be the coolest aunt. 

Wendy Beck 41:35
No. 

Mia Ellis 41:36
She really, really would. And she would spoil them rotten and it makes me sad that she's not here to see that. My oldest was little over six when my sister passed away and my youngest was just shy of four years old. 

Rich Bennett 41:56
Wow. 

Mia Ellis 41:57
Yeah. 

So. 

Wendy Beck 42:00
So their memories are few and far. 

Mia Ellis 42:01
Their memories are what I share with them or from pictures. 

Rich Bennett 42:07
Yeah. 

Mia Ellis 42:09
Right after she passed. They had memories of, oh, remember when he and Dana used to come over in color with us or, you know, I remember seeing Dana coming over and watching a movie and doing my hair. So that was the memories. But they're kind of. 

Fading, which hurts. In a different way. 

Rich Bennett 42:26
They will. 

Wendy Beck 42:27
Well, I think that they do. Honestly, like, even. 

Rich Bennett 42:31
Yes and no, I think. 

Wendy Beck 42:31
Daughter 

Rich Bennett 42:32
When you hit 

Wendy Beck 42:33
with her. 

Rich Bennett 42:33
like closer's teenage years. And I always say that because I'm thinking of my son and my daughter. I mean completely. I mean, my son's 31. My daughter's 22. 

Wendy Beck 42:45
Right. 

Rich Bennett 42:46
Big range difference there. But when we lost our first daughter, 

Wendy Beck 42:49
My. 

Rich Bennett 42:49
my daughter wasn't even born yet. And she was very young. 

Wendy Beck 42:53
On. 

Rich Bennett 42:54
When my parents passed. Well, it's amazing now how a lot of stuff she does remember when she was younger. But a lot of stuff now she'll bring up these. I remember. And it's like. 

Wendy Beck 43:07
Well, 

Rich Bennett 43:07
Right? 

Wendy Beck 43:08
you're probably. Let me let me let me touch on that for a second, because I feel like sometimes the shock of it and then like these memories start coming back 

Rich Bennett 43:17
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 43:17
over time, it's almost kind of like they. 

Rich Bennett 43:19
I think as you get older, 

Wendy Beck 43:20
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 43:20
they do. 

Wendy Beck 43:20
They seep in a little bit. And. And. And then it becomes safe to talk about. 

Rich Bennett 43:25
Right. 

Wendy Beck 43:26
Because sometimes at first it's not. 

Rich Bennett 43:29
Yeah. 

Mia Ellis 43:30
It's funny you say that because, 

you know, I was this was months ago. I was going through the kids old clothes to see what fit them and what didn't. And there was a pair of purple free fleece pajamas that were very small and I was like. 

Rich Bennett 43:52
Sorry, but this sounds to. 

Mia Ellis 43:54
I know, I. It used to wear fleece footie pyjamas all the time to bed. And so there was a pair of purple fleece pyjamas. And I said to my oldest, they said, like, why is the why are these so in the bin? These don't fit you. They haven't fit you in forever. There's no chance that they're going to fit your sister. 

Rich Bennett 44:15
Uh huh. 

Mia Ellis 44:15
And she says, Well, because I was wearing those pajamas one of the last time Diane and Dana came over. 

And I'm thinking like, okay, all right. So she she kept them. And it kind of was very touching. 

Wendy Beck 44:34
I'll make me cry. 

Mia Ellis 44:35
To me. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 44:36
Yeah. 

Mia Ellis 44:36
And it was her memory, and I don't remember that, But it was her memory. 

Wendy Beck 44:40
Her memory. 

Mia Ellis 44:40
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 44:41
Mm hmm. 

Mia Ellis 44:42
And that's why she has 

Wendy Beck 44:43
And I know. 

Mia Ellis 44:43
them. 

Wendy Beck 44:44
Mara does that a little bit even more now, like than she did when 

Mia Ellis 44:48
When she 

Wendy Beck 44:48
she 

Mia Ellis 44:48
was 

Wendy Beck 44:48
was 

Mia Ellis 44:48
ten. 

Wendy Beck 44:48
ten when it happened. And like, she'll say something and I was like. I love what you just said. It was her memory. 

Mia Ellis 44:56
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 44:56
It's not me saying, Oh, remember when or my. My sadness or my memories. They they definitely have their own. And I think at the when the time is right, it's going to come out. 

Mia Ellis 45:07
Yeah. And I'll and I'll say to my girls every now and then you have bits and pieces of and Dana, my oldest, has the most beautiful, adorable freckles on her face. And my sister had freckles. And my youngest is really into like, I guess I do hair and makeup and that's how my sister was. And they both just absolutely adore animals. And I do too, but not to the extent that my sister did. And I just think it's amazing to see their love for animals come out because it's the good parts of my sister that are still carried on. 

Rich Bennett 45:49
Have you taken him to the Humane Society? 

Mia Ellis 45:50
Oh, gosh, Yes, we do. 

Wendy Beck 45:52
They volunteer, don't you? 

Rich Bennett 45:53
Do they really? 

Mia Ellis 45:53
So. Wow. So what we do every year, because my sister passed on her birthday every year. On her birthday. 

Wendy Beck 46:00
They. 

Mia Ellis 46:01
We I write a check as a donation in my sister's memory. They take some of their own money. 

Sometimes we'll look at their wish list and we'll go to the store and my girls will pick out maybe some food or toys for the Humane Society. Sometimes we'll go up there and just kind of visit. 

Rich Bennett 46:19
Mm hmm. 

Mia Ellis 46:21
In fact, my youngest daughter, she made some toys for the dogs and cats up there on a sick day. They're still sitting at home. We have to go up there and drop them off. But they're toys that she made for them. And a year after my sister passed, I got a plaque put in the lobby with her name on it. And I used the donations that people had contributed in her name to buy the plaque. 

Wendy Beck 46:51
Is it? Is it? Say 

Mia Ellis 46:52
It 

Wendy Beck 46:52
cat 

Mia Ellis 46:52
says. 

Wendy Beck 46:53
cutler? 

Mia Ellis 46:55
I forget exactly what it says, but it has her whole name Dana, Cathleen Kettle family. And yeah, we go up there quite often, whether it's to donate food, money or just to visit. 

Rich Bennett 47:06
Good. 

Wendy Beck 47:07
And that's a that's a good way to keep someone's memory going. 

Mia Ellis 47:11
Oh, yeah, definitely. 

Rich Bennett 47:12
Yeah. 

Mia Ellis 47:14
So we do that every year on March 7th. 

Rich Bennett 47:17
You said one of your daughters makes the toys for pets. 

Mia Ellis 47:21
She made it just happen to be. It might have been a six day project or a rainy day summer project. I don't remember. But it's toys for the cats out of cardboard boxes. I think she made like a squeak toy or something as well. 

Rich Bennett 47:38
Women out of a cardboard box. 

Mia Ellis 47:40
Yeah. So they have if you go online, there's a printout of how to make safe toys from products at home for the animals. And of course, you have to use, you know, non-toxic glue, all that stuff. But we printed out some stuff and she chose what she wanted to to make. And I think she made maybe three or four things that we have yet to drop off there. Yeah, but we, we go up there a lot. 

Rich Bennett 48:07
I think she needs to start making more and some. 

Sell them and get the money to donate back to the Humane Society. 

Mia Ellis 48:15
That's a good idea. After my sister passed in her obituary, instead of having flowers delivered to 

Rich Bennett 48:21
Yeah. 

Mia Ellis 48:21
the funeral home, we asked for donations to the Humane Society and people were so generous. 

Rich Bennett 48:26
Yeah. 

Mia Ellis 48:27
They donated so many things. And then when my dad passed away, we asked for the same thing in his obituary. And people. We have very generous family and friends, 

Rich Bennett 48:35
Mm. 

Mia Ellis 48:36
very supportive. So that's that's kind of our thing to do, to remember my sister. 

Wendy Beck 48:40
I like how this conversation, even though it's a heavy conversation because, you know, we always. How complicated. Addiction grief is, you know, from an overdose especially. But we've kind of come to the other side and we've talked about memories and, you know, giving back to the community. And it's just kind of people don't see that other side of it because. How long has she been gone? Eight. 

Mia Ellis 49:06
So this March 2025, gosh, it'll be seven, 

Wendy Beck 49:11
Seven. Yeah. 

Mia Ellis 49:11
seven years. 

Wendy Beck 49:12
Seven years because it'll. Yeah. And. I feel like. 

Mia Ellis 49:16
Feels like forever. 

Wendy Beck 49:17
It does feel like forever. But I feel like it has taken this long to be able to have these types of conversations. 

Mia Ellis 49:26
It's a process for sure, 

Wendy Beck 49:27
Yeah. 

Mia Ellis 49:27
and it's not an easy process. 

Wendy Beck 49:28
And it's not saying, Oh yeah, we're healed, you know, but but I'm saying it becomes easier to talk about because, you know, even you're one, two, three and four. It wasn't easy. 

Mia Ellis 49:42
No. 

Wendy Beck 49:43
So we be able to come out on this side, this much, you know, this far removed and still. Be able to to remember and is pretty amazing. 

Mia Ellis 49:53
I look at it this way, and I'm sure you could probably say the same thing about Kelsey. I'm sure you could probably say the same thing as well. I don't think my sister would want me to be upset all the time. 

Wendy Beck 50:05
I know. 

Mia Ellis 50:06
You know, she was very boisterous and outgoing and just she was just fun loving and. You know, there are moments when the grief kicks you in the ass, and I think it always will. Holidays are hard. Certain dates are hard. March 7th is your birthday, but it's also the day that she passed away. So it's kind of like a double whammy. 

Thanksgiving is hard. This time of year, I'm not going to lie from probably like November till like March is over is for me very hard because we've got Thanksgiving, then we've got Christmas. Then my dad passed away January 31st, so that's hard. And then my birthday's in February. Then March 7th is her birthday. And when she passed and then my dad's birthday is March 14th. So I just feel like it's just the 

Wendy Beck 51:02
I call 

Mia Ellis 51:03
dates. 

Wendy Beck 51:03
it. Yeah. And you know what I call it? I call it the grieving season. And I mean that because. 

Mia Ellis 51:09
Oh, I hate it. 

Wendy Beck 51:10
It's it's real. And like, you just listed those events where, you know, I have similar as well like the her birthday 

Mia Ellis 51:19
I. 

Wendy Beck 51:19
and then the last time we all made cookies together as a family. 

Mia Ellis 51:23
Christmas. 

Wendy Beck 51:23
It's like I just something happens inside of you during that time. And I just kind of, like, decided to call it the grieving season, because even though I'm participating and doing all of these things, there's this inherent sadness or they're just kind of like invisible cloak that you're carrying around with you that no one. As time passes, no one really thinks about anymore. And I feel like that's where you know, how many times two is. Does anyone come up to you and say, you know, I was thinking about Dana today or, you know. 

Mia Ellis 51:54
They used to afterwards. 

Wendy Beck 51:55
But as time goes, it starts to dissipate and, you know, it's hard. 

Mia Ellis 52:00
I'm sure you can relate. 

Rich Bennett 52:01
Oh, I can't tell you how many times people, especially when I grew the beard, people will call me T-Bone. 

Wendy Beck 52:11
You resemble each other. 

Rich Bennett 52:12
Yeah, I keep I keep saying no, I got both of my eyes, so. 

Mia Ellis 52:16
Glass. 

Rich Bennett 52:16
Sigh. But yeah, it's. It's weird. It 

Wendy Beck 52:22
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 52:22
is. 

Mia Ellis 52:22
How long has it been for you? 

Rich Bennett 52:25
It'll be seven years March 24th. 

Mia Ellis 52:27
Okay, so we're. 

Rich Bennett 52:28
Yeah. When you said March 25th, I. 

Mia Ellis 52:31
Or March 7th or 

Rich Bennett 52:33
Then you say 2/25, the first. 

Mia Ellis 52:35
no March. 

Rich Bennett 52:35
Okay. 

Mia Ellis 52:36
So we're like, on the same timeline here. Okay. 

Rich Bennett 52:39
February was his birthday. 

Mia Ellis 52:41
February is my birthday. Okay. 

Rich Bennett 52:42
Okay. And, um. Yeah. It's weird how certain dates stick in your mind. I 

Wendy Beck 52:48
I. 

Rich Bennett 52:48
can never remember, like, my parents birthdays. 

Wendy Beck 52:53
Why do I remember that? The last time we made cookies together as a family was December 6th. 

Mia Ellis 53:00
It's a random 

Wendy Beck 53:00
What? 

Mia Ellis 53:00
date. 

Wendy Beck 53:00
What? Why do I remember that? So when that day comes up, I'm like, Oh, 

Rich Bennett 53:05
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 53:05
should I eat a cookie? You mean like, it's so weird? 

Rich Bennett 53:09
I don't even remember. Like when my father passed. I just know it was close to St Patrick's Day, and my mother was in April and. But my brother that day, I remember specifically, you know, because I remember being at the hospital and it's just. 

Wendy Beck 53:27
Of course, the members. 

Rich Bennett 53:28
I'm here as my idol. 

Mia Ellis 53:29
Here. 

Rich Bennett 53:30
February 19. Certain birthdays are remember? Son, you know. 

Mia Ellis 53:36
So March. 

Wendy Beck 53:37
Your wife. 

Rich Bennett 53:38
Well, that's. 

Wendy Beck 53:40
You better say that. 

Rich Bennett 53:41
Thank God my daughter was born on the same yacht on the same day. 

Wendy Beck 53:44
Okay, so you have a double reminder. 

Rich Bennett 53:46
Yeah. 

Mia Ellis 53:47
So March six was. March six was the last time I saw Dana. And that just happens to be Black Balloon Day. 

Wendy Beck 53:56
Oh, yes. Yeah. 

Mia Ellis 53:57
Which is Black Balloon Day. 

Wendy Beck 53:59
It's a remembrance Day for people who passed. Mark and I have. 

Mia Ellis 54:03
have this memory of which I took my youngest to preschool. I met Dana at IHOP in Bellaire for her birthday breakfast. As her birthday was. The next day we left IHOP. We went together to pick up my daughter from preschool because it was only half a day, and we surprised my daughter because she thought it was just me. But she was so excited to see her and Dana at preschool pick up. We drove back to my parents house. All of us. My sister left to go to an appointment, and that was the last time I actually saw her. But during our drive, there was random balloons around Bel Air. 

Wendy Beck 54:48
Oh, really? 

Mia Ellis 54:49
And the ship, the police barracks at the time had the numbers of how many people were lost to a heroin overdose. And there is black balloons on there. And I had this conversation and I said, if you don't get your ass together, you. 

Wendy Beck 55:06
You could say it. 

Mia Ellis 55:07
If you don't get your shit together. You're going to be a number on that sign and people are going be hanging black balloons for you. And she convinced herself that everything was fine. I knew it wasn't. But you can't talk sense into somebody's an act of addiction. You really can't. 

Wendy Beck 55:26
No. 

Rich Bennett 55:27
And that was the day before. 

Mia Ellis 55:28
That was that was the 

Wendy Beck 55:29
Hours 

Mia Ellis 55:29
day before. 

Wendy Beck 55:29
before. 

Mia Ellis 55:30
And yes, so that March six, any time March six rolls around, it's it's a hard day because it's black polling day. And also it's just a hard day for me because of that memory. 

Rich Bennett 55:40
Marches. 

Mia Ellis 55:42
Sucks does. 

Wendy Beck 55:44
I don't know. I don't have a well. 

Mia Ellis 55:46
My dad's birthday is March 14th, and he's he's been gone for a little bit of time now. So it's just March is just not. 

Wendy Beck 55:51
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 55:52
Think about March 

Mia Ellis 55:52
Best. 

Rich Bennett 55:52
as St Patrick's Day. 

Mia Ellis 55:55
I don't even celebrate that. 

Rich Bennett 55:56
Were you retired? 

Wendy Beck 55:58
Yeah. There you go. 

Mia Ellis 55:58
I know. 

Wendy Beck 55:59
For us, Irish. 

Rich Bennett 56:04
She never. 

Mia Ellis 56:07
I have family listening to this. Probably so. 

Rich Bennett 56:10
Well, they're not Irish. 

Mia Ellis 56:12
You don't know. You don't know. 

Wendy Beck 56:15
Well, I'm glad we have this conversation. And I, you know, thank you for coming and talking about a really hard topic. And I know that there's you know, when someone does pass away from an overdose, you know, the parents are, you know, going through what they're going through. Sometimes there's, you know, spouses and children. And I don't think that the siblings really get, you know, the attention or the support that they might need. And. They're probably one of the closest people to, you know, the loved one that existed in their life and their And not only is the the the death hard, but being there and watching what happens to someone when they start to to be in active addiction and the toll that it takes on the family, the siblings are usually the ones that are either overcompensating 

Mia Ellis 57:14
That was 

Wendy Beck 57:14
under 

Mia Ellis 57:14
my. 

Wendy Beck 57:15
compensating or just, you know, completely forgotten about. And, you know, they have a lot of trauma in their life and that they need to overcome. So we don't we don't want to, you know, forget about them because they take on a lot of responsibility to help hold the family together. 

Mia Ellis 57:32
We do. And I'll say this right after my sister passed. A friend of mine invited me to a sibling's last group. And at first I was hesitant because I was like, Why do I want to go sit and talk about sad things? Like, Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 57:49
Yeah. 

Mia Ellis 57:50
again, what I said before, sitting in uncomfortable feelings is not the way I want to spend my evening. But there it was, a very small, intimate group and we all felt the same way. And we would meet once a month for quite a while. And it was very therapeutic for all of us to talk about how the dynamic in the family changes when you lose a sibling. In my case, Dana was my only sibling and some of the members of the group. They have other siblings, but it doesn't change the fact that, you know, it's it's sad and it's in it's hard. And, you know, there's a natural order of things you expect to lose your parents first 

and then you expect your relationship with your sibling to mature and, you know, you expect to grow old with your with your. 

Rich Bennett 58:47
Yeah. 

Mia Ellis 58:47
Were your brother. And we were always. Mia and Dana. It was always Mia and Dana. And to go from that to just Mia was very, very hard. 

And again, I think because I have two girls, sometimes it's emotional for me. And I know my sister was like, so excited to become an aunt. And I just think when they have their squabbles or whatever or when they're getting along, I just wish my sister was here so we could kind of say, well, let me tell you what she did to me. You think this is bad? Let me tell you. 

Wendy Beck 59:22
PS of not having being able to have someone. To kind of reminisce with. 

Mia Ellis 59:29
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 59:29
It's probably really difficult. 

Mia Ellis 59:31
It is. And, you know, I lost my dad and I'm not going to get too much into that because I'll cry. But I always expected that when my parents got older. You know that Dana and I would do this together. And so losing my dad was hard and sad. And I think it was just a double whammy because I didn't have. I mean, my mom and I share the loss. Yes, but her loss is her loss. It was her has. 

Wendy Beck 1:00:00
Has been. 

Mia Ellis 1:00:00
Relationship was way different with him than mine was, obviously. But it would have been nice to just have Dana around to just be like, Oh my God. Remember when Daddy did this? Remember when Dad did that? Or, you know. So it is it is hard. It's very hard. So I do want to thank I'm not going to give names, but I do want to thank the sibling warriors that have helped me through this, because when I first joined that group, I was fresh into this grief and some of them were seven years down the road and they would tell me it doesn't get better, it just gets more manageable. And I didn't believe them. I'm sure you felt the same way. I how can this get more manageable? Like I don't this is the most terrible thing that's ever happened to me. And they said, you'll get to the other side. You'll be able to talk about the memories without crying a lot. And. And they were right. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:58
Yeah, but. And that's the thing. Never let go of the memories. 

Mia Ellis 1:01:02
You can't. And we say, and I'm sure you could say this to Wendy and you can say this, Rich, like you don't move on. You just move forward. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:12
Yeah. 

Mia Ellis 1:01:12
I always say moving on is like moving on from when you break up with somebody in high school. Right. You move on. But when you lose somebody, you move forward. You just learn to heal in different ways. And you just have to. 

Wendy Beck 1:01:27
You adjust, you adjust 

Mia Ellis 1:01:28
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 1:01:28
your sails and, you know, you have to keep going. You know, you have to keep going. And this is kind of it's kind of weird. But I had a dream after Kelsey passed away, and it's a really long dream, and she actually showed up in it, which is freaking weird. But I remember that was like this amusement park. And her and I were at, like, the top of this waterslide, and she went down and I was like, in shock, Like she went down and I couldn't find her. And so I got down to the neck to a level, and my cousin happened to be there. And remember, this is a dream. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:07
Mm hmm. 

Wendy Beck 1:02:08
And the cousin said to me, she said, she's like. She said, No, no, no. I went down first. Sorry about that. Sorry. Sorry. I went down first and I was like, trying to like, wait, I can't go down. You know, I don't want to lose my lose her with me. When I got to this first level and I said to the cousin and I said, Oh. I said, You know, I came down first and I want to go back. I want to go back up and be with her. And she said to me, in the dream, she said, sometimes we just have to keep going and we'll meet each other at the end. I swear to you. And I woke up in, like, just this tears and. And. See, the thing is, that was like wisdom that came to me and. Sorry. Okay, We can hang up now. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:55
We think of the. 

Wendy Beck 1:03:00
Q Mia, I love you, 

Mia Ellis 1:03:02
Look, thanks for making me cry. 

Wendy Beck 1:03:03
Rich. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:08
We can. 

Wendy Beck 1:03:10
Well, I guess we were on the phone. 

Mia Ellis 1:03:12
Like we're on the phone that's connected to a law from the 1990s. Oh, my God.