Visionary Leadership: A Conversation with Kerry-Ann T. Powell

In this engaging episode of "Conversations with Rich Bennett," proudly sponsored by Window Depot of Baltimore, host Rich Bennett and co-host Jeffrey Pollard sit down with the esteemed Kerry-Ann T. Powell. The episode centers around the critical theme of visionary leadership and its transformative impact on business success.

Kerry-Ann T. Powell, with her profound insights, underscores the necessity of a clear, far-reaching vision in business leadership. She stresses that a vision should extend well beyond the immediate future, ideally spanning 15 to 20 years, to effectively steer a company through various phases of growth and adaptation. This vision, according to Kerry-Ann, is not just a statement but a core part of the company's culture and strategic direction.

The discussion also ventures into the realms of team building and alignment with the company's vision and values. Kerry-Ann offers valuable perspectives on creating teams that are not only skilled but also deeply connected to the company's ethos and long-term goals.

Throughout the episode, Kerry-Ann shares personal stories and practical advice, illustrating the power of visionary leadership in overcoming business challenges and fostering stability and growth. This episode, sponsored by Window Depot of Baltimore, is a must-listen for entrepreneurs, business leaders, and anyone keen on mastering the art of visionary leadership and team management.

Here are links for you to bookmark, save, follow, memorize, write down, and share with others:

http://www.nobusinesschaos.com/

Kerry-Ann Powell, Esq. | LinkedIn

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Transcript

Rich Bennett 0:00
Thanks for joining the conversation today. I have Jeff Pollard co-host and we're joined by Kerry and Powell. Kerry and is an experienced global business strategist, an advocate for small and medium sized businesses with over 20 years of experience in various roles, including attorney, lobbyist and fundraiser, where she notably raised $120 million for the Martin Luther King Jr Memorial. She founded Travel GA. Strategies to Empower Business owners worldwide with strategies for success. Her expertise is sought after by international brands and notable individuals, underscoring her commitment to the vital role of small and medium sized businesses in the economy. Beyond her, beyond her professional endeavors, Ann enjoys traveling, learning Spanish, and appreciating good food all year and company. So join us as we discuss true culprits causing chaos in your business. Wait a minute. I got start off right away. Good food. 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 1:04
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 1:05
What's your favorite dish? 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 1:07
Oh, Lord, have mercy. You know. 

You. Know, I have been jonesing lately on Vietnamese fall, and I think I might have mispronounced it, but that wonderful brothy soup with the noodles and the. Oh, gosh, So good. You mix in some hoisin sauce and life is good. 

Rich Bennett 1:27
Isn't there a restaurant around that? Does it hot pot or something? Or is that something else? 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 1:33
You know, I no, I've not been there, but I would think that it might be sort of similar because sometimes, often it might consider hot pot. But I do think there's a lot of sort of pan-Asian restaurants that kind of mixed cuisines. But I'm telling you, we haven't tried it. You need to. Add some good stuff. 

Jeffrey Pollard 1:50
Yeah, and there's a new pho place that just opened up nearby us or something. Aberdeen. So it's I've heard some really good reviews about it, how it's a little different because. Okay. 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 2:01
Yeah. 

Jeffrey Pollard 2:01
Make your own bowl of ramen. But there's a nearby jack. 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 2:07
You got to go try it. Let me know. 

Rich Bennett 2:10
Oh, well, yeah. I mean, I'm going to have to try it, and I don't think I know. No, I've never had that. 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 2:17
Yeah, it's a it's. It's sort of a brothy soup. And if you're, you know, you can have it. You can make it vegetarian. Meaning like the soup can be vegetarian, but it's primarily done through like a beef broth and, and then they mix different things in there and, you know, but it's the noodle base. And then the goal here is and you know, there's sort of basil and there's like all this other stuff. And, and the whole goal is that you can mix and match kind of how you want the soup to go. But oh my goodness gracious. So good. 

Rich Bennett 2:49
All right. Let's talk about food, because I'm getting hungry now. 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 2:51
And I found out that Vietnamese actually eat more for breakfast. It's a breakfast dish as opposed to what we would consider a more savory sort of lunch and dinner. 

Rich Bennett 3:01
Really? 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 3:01
Yeah, it's interesting. 

Jeffrey Pollard 3:04
Yeah, that is interesting, because what I've heard about far as you eat it when you're sick and it clears you right up. 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 3:09
Or does. Clear your mind, you know. If you put. That salsa in there. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 3:14
Wait. Okay, hold up. Wait a minute. Back up. When you say clear, you right up. You're talking about sinuses, right? No. 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 3:22
No. Okay. Well, I don't know. I'm just saying. Yeah, but. 

Rich Bennett 3:27
I don't want to be clearing out the wrong part. 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 3:30
If you're. If you got a cold or something. It's really good for that. 

Rich Bennett 3:34
Okay. Wow. Yeah, I was going to say, we are taking a really sharp left turn. I said, Carrie, one of the things I love to ask my guest when we start 

back in high school, what you know, because now you know, they want you to have your career path, even though after you get out, do two years of college, you're changing your career already. Sometimes even when you're 30, you change it. Sometimes, like me, when you're in your 50 seconds, you were back in high school. What was what was it that you actually wanted to do? What was your plans? 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 4:09
Oh, dear. I was going to be a doctor, actually, and I wanted to be an oncologist at some point towards the, you know, like as that was my specialty that I plan to do. Right. 

Rich Bennett 4:20
And what it was it that you ended up doing after you got out of high school? I went to college right? 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 4:25
Yeah, after I went to the university. And I think coming out of coming out of college, I was a little bit uncertain. You know, that wasn't really something my parents really like because I'm like, Well, before all this money, what are you going to do now? So they're like, Well, okay, well, we'll foot your bills. For a couple of. Months. But, you know, let's, let's, let's. Figure this out. So I took a job working for the United Way as a as a fundraising court, a speaker and tours coordinator, and if you have international listeners, the United Way's basically is it's a Pillar Corp community organization that raises funds through corporate and employee giving and then gives it to particular nonprofits in in their communities. So I did a stint there, a66 month full time stints. I was like part time. I mean, it was, you know, temporary but full time. And I just fell in love with the idea of becoming strategic around how one solves a big community problem, particularly that around fundraising. So that's what I did after. And I just basically, you know, when I was finished with the role, I, you know, marched my little sassy button to the VP's office thinking I was all that. Because anyone you're 20, you really don't know what you don't know. So so I walked in, they said, Hey, you know, I think I should be a fundraising director, and I think I'd be the best fundraising director you've ever hired. I didn't know anything about fundraising. 

Well, she said, okay, she didn't. She didn't. Poop on my. Idea. She didn't look down on me. She said, okay, Karen, thank you for coming in and having that conversation. And, you know, so I left because we were finished with like with the campaign. And three or four months later, she called me, says, Hey, we've got a role. It's a more of a a role in one of our smaller account books. We want to try you out. And that was my taste of fundraising. And it's been a part of my career for a long time. 

Rich Bennett 6:34
Wait a minute. How how do you go from fundraising to becoming an attorney? 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 6:38
Yeah, that's a really good question. So while I was doing that, I you know, I really succeeded in the role. I was in the role I was doing as a director. And I got a chance to really get a chance to understand what some of the real problems that the community was facing. And I remember thinking to myself, you know, we would you know, we would 

really, you know, have these grand sort of announcements about, oh, you know, we like, for instance, we had this, you know, domestic violence shelter that was at the time one of the largest in the in the country. Yeah, we had a school on side. I mean, it really had some fantastic programming before it was even, you know, it was definitely cutting edge. And of course, the community was supporting it financially and through other means. And all I could think about was, I'm sorry, I don't understand. Why do we have domestic violence again? You know, why do we need a shelter for this? Again, remind me of what this is and why we can't stop it. And so I started really thinking. I realized the way that my solution, my brain worked was really more around how do we create solutions for some of the problems that we were addressing? So I spent some time sort of asking around. By that time I developed a quite a bit of a network, so I started asking around what are some ways and what are some career paths that people use to be able to address systemic problems within society? And the one of the ones that came across a couple of my lawyer friends were like, You know, law school's a great way to do that. You don't have to just go and work at a law firm. You can there's many ways that you can use the law to address some some some societal issues. So I started doing some research around that went to law school, focused on constitutional law and started as a constitutional lawyer, public interest work and as a lobbyist. And that's how I went. From fundraising to law to law. 

Rich Bennett 8:34
Wow, that and all that. Within a span. So you graduate high school all within a span of ten years because you're about 30 right now. That's amazing. 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 8:47
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was definitely a moment. You know, I one of the things that I that I always try to 

push are this concept of, you know, we're lucky to be alive. We're lucky to be living longer than our ancestors. We as humanity has been able to. I think we've tacked on additional 40 plus years over the course of a century. And as a result we can live many lives during that time. We can do many things in that during that time, there are many ways that we can impact the world during that time. And so, yeah, I mean, it's nothing wrong with, you know, doing the same thing for your whole life because I think there's a developing expertise and rooted into a particular 

vocation. At the same time, there are many, many things you can do and you can start doing things very late in life at this stage. I mean, there are people who've started things at 80 and, you know. 

Rich Bennett 9:49
They're. 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 9:49
Doing amazing things. So that is one thing that I really do truly believe in. 

Rich Bennett 9:54
Oh, look how many people they, you know, when it comes. Well, of course, retirement, retirement age, I think is going up. But even when people retire, I don't think they really Well, some do, but a lot of them don't really retire even if they're not working. Yeah, they're working because they're volunteering for something. 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 10:13
Yeah. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 10:14
So technically you're still working, but you're just not getting paid. Yeah, a people can't sit still. So I want to get into the eight true culprits causing chaos in your business. Can you elaborate on the importance of building teams based on function rather than personality? 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 10:32
Huh? Okay. 

I love that question. You know, I one of the one of the challenges. So, you know, there's sort of I always start first with identifying what what chaos really is in the business. Right. So what I have found are these four main things that pop up in small and midsize companies and what owners and founders of small, I mean, companies are facing and the four symptoms of chaos, which I call them, as opposed to chaos, because the truth be told, these are just simply symptoms. They could have other underlying reasons. One of of obviously is cash. Cash is a big problem, the cash flow issues. Second one would be 

the inability to scale. So they've been around for a bit. They could be growing because growth is one stage of business, but scale is a different point where they are being able to move their top revenues away from creating a gap between expenses and revenues in the way that you're growing. So that scale having a hard time scaling. Third is that, you know, the owner of the founder is just too busy in the in the in the company so that they're unable to step away 

from without feeling like it's going to implode. And then the fourth is teams. They're unable to build a strong team, unable to maintain a strong team, or the team is not functioning at the efficiency that they would need. So the question around, you know, why would one need to build a team that is based on function versus personality is just because it's natural, human, human humanity, the way we operate as humans, right? We're building something we need. We have a need in the business. We kind of say, Hey, cousin Susie, no social media, so let's bring her in. Yeah. And then Uncle Bob is good at accounting, so we'll just bring him in and we just kind of, you know, create this hodgepodge, which is fine in the early days, early, early methods. However, when when companies begin to bring me in and invite me in. So by this time they're, you know, at ten employees, 20 employees for the employees, and they have this sort of weird hodgepodge of people that they have brought on board that are in their teams, but they're not functioning at peak. So you begin to sort of address what's peak for them, while the real reality is because there is never really, you know, people start like, oh, I'm starting a business. I'm like, okay, first start with a worked chart. Well, first start with your business vision, but let's create an org chart first. Even though it's only you working in it and then build the company and like basically put your self out of a job, right each time you hire. But if you're, if you develop a job on a org chart that fits the needs of your business. So sometimes people will go and say, you know, all right, you know, I need to hire this person because that's what every company should have this person in the box somewhere. And truth is that, you know, there are some core core people in a business that need to make it work. At the same time, you to sort of be clear about what your business needs. So sometimes what I what I'll notice is that folks kind of haven't really written a true org chart or job descriptions or understanding what the temperament of their team needs. Team member needs to be for that particular role on a holistic level is so they don't they can't do a big picture. And so sometimes you look and you see there's someone who's, you know, even if this person is has been with the company for ten years, but if they're not really suited for the role right now or if the role has evolved and that person is still in that role, but they're not at the peak performer in that particular role, but because they've been with you for ten years, you have some loyalty, you're unwilling to make changes and switches, then you're you're kind of walk walking around or trying to, you know, you know, orchestrate an orchestra with one hand behind your back. Yeah. So I think it's really important to understand first what's something people are like, okay, well, you know, you want to burn the building down. Is that what you want me to do? Like fire all the staff and start again? Yeah. No, that's not it. But you do need to pause a bit and be a leader in the company and sort of say, okay, 

you know, we've got company 1.0 running on its rails. That's fine. You know, you got to fulfill customer stuff. You got to, you know, you can't stop the business. But taking the time to take a look and see, okay, if I was coming in and looking at this business today, what does this business need by way of team and build that org chart, build the JavaScript and build the agreement between the employee and the company, and then also understand what the temperament of that person is because you know anyone really truth. Most people could do anything. MM For a little bit of time. But you know, you need to hire people who are going to be able to do something really well all the time and that's about their temperament. Yeah. Right. Well kind of understanding that and then looking at your business, comparing your 2.0 with your 1.0 and saying, where are the gaps? Do I need to either up train, you know, you know, Mama Mart over here who's doing who've been doing customer fulfillment all this time. But now she's just not that good at at what how we've evolved the company. Maybe we need to send her to more training skills. Training? Do we need to move her into another role in the company, or does it needs a time to, you know, let her go? So, you know, you want to kind of assess your company based on these things. And it's obviously these are difficult decisions, but you're the leader and so that's your role. The company is the baby. You need to be able it's the thing that's going to gain value and generate value for you, the employees, the customers. And so if you're not taking care of it as an entity outside of yourself, it's a difficult it's hard to to to let that thing grow as best it can scale to the places where it can. 

Rich Bennett 16:40
Yeah. So actually with that approach, can you explain to everybody how to contribute to the business's long term stability and success? 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 16:51
Yeah, because look, look, I think outside of sort of some of the fundamental things in the business, I mean, if you don't have a business vision that makes sense or a business model that makes sense or way that you produce, you know, your your product, or if you don't have an exit plan, that's sort of fundamental because if you don't have that, then that's like foundational stuff you need to have that on in your business. However, 

besides that, how you lead and the type of team you have will determine how the longevity of your business. Now, of course, there are I think of there's sort of like three types of businesses. This is not just Karen's way of understanding the world. So I like to think of sort of there's three types of businesses or kind of businesses that are what we call it, the side hustle, right? You've got a job and you've got another business that you're running to bring additional income into your home. That's one one type of company. You don't necessarily need to have a great deal of loyalty for your team. You know, there's not a you know, there's a way to structure that's a little bit different, right? Yeah. And there's a second type of company, sort of a lifestyle business where you you have a business, you're you're creating it for the purpose of supporting your lifestyle. Like sort of, you know, you know, we would consider like mom and pop shops back in the day a sort of lifestyle business. Is. The support of the family's life. But that was about where they were planning on going. Of course, right now today, there's so much writing and literature and and folks that are out there that are that have developed lifestyle businesses that are in the millions and billions. Right. So this is not a thing where it means it caps you at what you can earn. But a lifestyle business is a very different, different thing than, say, the third category, which be a growth company. You're building a company to grow it, to make it sustainable, to have some legs for it to last, maybe to sell it from, you know, for multiples, whatever that looks like. So depending upon what kind of company you're running, that needs to be a part of how you want to build your team. Most of the folks that come to me want to build some that's going to last, you know, kind of grow a bit. So and of course, grow doesn't have to look like Google growth could look like, you know, your kind of growth. But nonetheless, growth meaning it can stay a while now. So if you have depending upon what kind of company you're building, then you need to be thinking about what kind of team you need to be building and the type of team and how sustained the team is and how you're leading the team, how you know, if people are in the right seats, the people that are, you know, that are qualified for those roles, that actually know what the role is, because you interviewed a few of them all, and I don't know, they had the temperament for it. Then you can really falter. But the business can can. That's one big huge red flag. I was I had a client, her company, still a client of mine. But when we when they came on board early, early days, she really didn't know what was going on. She kept saying, oh, the company is going well. But for some reason I don't know why we keep not having customers stay longer. And so they were consulting company based in Washington. I was like, okay, well, let's sort of see. She's like, you know, the team is doing great. I don't know. I don't know what's going on with the customers. So, you know, as we sort of did an an assessment, an audit of what was going on, that the team did not look like they had such bad taste in their mouth for her and the leadership in the company, there was such toxicity, they somehow she had broken trust somehow. And that was and she was even aware of it. That is what I'm saying. People think that, Oh yeah, my team is great, but. But really, are they? Because when I began to when we we began to sort of make do the staff interviews, we realize that a part of the reason why why they weren't able to maintain the lifetime value of the customers was because of the team. There are statistics that show you if you have a good, strong team that is engaged and loves working for your company, that can increase. I mean, I think the stat was if you can get people to 50% engagement and 50% is pretty low. If you think about it, if you. Can get. 50% engagement, increase your revenue to 80% by 80%. So you're these numbers around how you work with your team, these are not like, oh, you know, oh, it'd be great to have it, but it's not necessary. You know, I pay them, so just go with it. No, you really need to have a strong team. But I think it's really important to stress that I think of leadership. You know, in our methodology, we call it inspired leadership and rock star team. And in my opinion, it's really the same coin, just different sides of it. So if you have hired people who are self-motivated and you've, you know, you've provided them the tools necessary to do their jobs and you feel like they're a bit qualified and they're still not performing, then it's you. The problem is you you're not leading well. So I think, yes, you know, it's very important to build a strong team, but you can't build a strong team. And then you yourself are not leading well. And when I say leading well, I mean leading yourself, leading your organism, leading yourself, leading your team in, leading your organization. Those are three things you need to be doing. And so I often first go in and say, okay, because even with that particular case, since I began to realize now some of the folks in her team or a bit toxic, but I don't know them what they were before the whole situation started happening. But I go back to her. I'm like, What are you doing? You know. What's going on here? What are you doing that's causing the situation here? Because these folks still love the organization. And even though they're really upset with you, they do have some still love for you from a, you know, leader kind of kind of way. So I do think it's important to sort of pay attention to how you're leading and how your hiring. 

Rich Bennett 22:59
How does one go about leading themselves? 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 23:02
Yeah, well, here's the thing about leadership. And I and I think it's really something that people mistake and understand that they need leadership. It's not like, you know, people say, oh, they're are born leader as if somehow they of came out the womb being a good leader. Right. I don't believe in I don't believe in it at all. It's just it's the same way. You know, I tell you, I'm learning Spanish. I spent my time between Spain and these states. So I'm I'm I'm always on the journey of making my Spanish better. 

And, you know, my first language is English. All of us whose whatever our first language is English. We didn't learn English. We acquired it how to be a pirate by mimicking what our mom and our dad said, observing stuff in a cartoons. If you're watching Sesame Street, you know it's rap. You know, whatever. 

We don't learn it. We mimic, we acquire language. If it's our first language. Now, obviously we go to school and we learn some interesting things about it. You know, how we supposed to put the period here and the exclamation there and the comma there and all that kind of stuff. And we learned some some different words of vocabulary that aren't actually spoken in our homes, you know, But for the most part, we acquire language 

leadership is. But when I start in a second language, you are learning that language. This is not an acquired thing. You are learning that language. You're learning how to conjugate the verb, you're learning the vocabulary, you're learning the intonation as you're learning these things. So I think about leadership sort of similarly. You can, if you are raised in a home or been in experiences from when you were young, where you are observing leadership, you can acquire some leadership skills and that's great. And of course if you if you are observing leadership in your home, that wasn't very good leadership. You've also taken that on board. So I'm just saying. Yeah, well, so you acquire some leadership things. And again, of course if you were at a school that you know, you're able to run for class president or president of the Glee Club or whatever, you kind of acquired and learned leadership at that same time. And then as time goes on, we begin to put ourselves into places where we can learn more leadership skills. 

So you don't really just come out kind of having leadership skills like you need to. And if you feel like you're not a good leader, then you it's okay. I mean, like just like, don't have any shame around it is the same way just because you don't know how to speak a second language, huh? Right. Yeah. You just decide to start learning it. Start learning how to be a good leader. And a lot of entrepreneurs, they kind of are really sort of like, you know, love the idea of business and the risk of it all and building something in that kind of thing. But they may not be a leader, but that doesn't mean that they may not have leadership skills. However, you are now in the position of a leader. So it's like, you know, the sports. Stars are like, well, I'm not a I'm not a what do they call I'm. Not a role model. Well, yes, you are, because you're a sports star. And those kids are. Look at that. I'm sorry, but can't it comes with the package, right? Running a business means that you are a leader. And if you don't know how to lead, one must learn how to do that. So when you start talking about learning, like how do you lead oneself, it's really some basic things. It's like, you know, can you get up in and do the things in your business that you don't necessarily like to do, but you will do because you are leading yourself in doing that, right? You're leading or something. It's not like, Oh, I don't feel like it. You know, motivation is a thing, but really it's discipline. So can you lead yourself to get up and do the thing that you say you're going to do? Are you get up and go whatever. If you say you want to, you know, run every morning, are you leading yourself to get up and running every morning? If you've decided you want to do some mindset exercises to get your brain and your mind along, If you're not doing that, then that you're not leading yourself. So if you can't lead yourself, if you can't say, I'm going to do this and not do it on a regular basis, it's very difficult to then turn around and then start leading a team and you start seeing all these people complaining about my managers, this, my blah blah, blah, blah. It's because the person that's leading them is not exercising their own leadership abilities and they're not strengthening them. So I think it's really important to to to tighten your leadership abilities, get those skills. And there's so many books on leadership now. I mean, there's so much riding on leadership. Learn it, do it. You're in a leadership position. I'm sorry, but you are. 

Rich Bennett 27:59
And even if you're not, still read the books, learn. Yeah, that's, you know, it never stops. Yeah, go ahead, Jeff. I know you had a question. I'm sorry. 

Jeffrey Pollard 28:08
Yeah, carry on. So my background is in Human Services Administration, and I know you have a similar one coming from United Way, so I'm just I'm really focused on leadership. And if I move forward in my career, I'll probably go to, like, nonprofit or organization, the leadership for a Ph.D. or another graduate certificate. So I'm kind of wondering how do you go about being a leader to recruit a good team, like a solid all star team for your company? How how does that recruitment look? How does that team building process look and what can a leader do to solidify that? 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 28:42
Well, you know, first things first, you need to have a really clear vision of the company people. You know, there's this I don't know, some hogwash thought process out there. Now that people are lazy and they don't want to work and blah, blah, blah. No, that's not true. At all. Human nature does not change. People want to work and want to do things and they want to be parts of things that are bigger than themselves. They want to feel as if they're part of something that's that's and doesn't have to be, you know, like, you know, building the Martin Luther King Memorial. That's very inspiring and blah, blah, blah. But you could have some of the best dog food on on the market and you know, you want to. And that's what people I mean, everyone has their own thing, right? So you want to have a clear vision, though. You know, there's a there's a there's a part of the script that says without a vision, the people will perish. That is not just some religious thing out there. It is a belief that permeates through many different religious traditions and different philosophies. You have to have a clear vision. And when I say a clear vision, I don't want a clear vision for this year. I mean a clear vision for. You know, for the next 15, 20 years. It's a long term. Line for the next 20 years. And what are we working towards now? When I say vision, though, I want to be really clear. There's sort of three components that I consider to be a part of your business vision. One are the values that the business believes in. What is that really do you stand upon? And what what, what are the things? And if you can't be clear about what that is and you can't even if even if right now your company or your company isn't exhibiting the values and you and your team are exhibiting the values that you believe in, it's fine always. You can always be aspiration. Remember company one point out company to point out. So you want to have your values and have those written down and have them explains why everyone understands what our values really are. Then you want to have your purpose. What is it that your business is about? And I don't mean that long thing or the mission statement. Everyone has an A plaque. It's sitting in the front by the by the receptionist office and nobody read it. I just. A quick sentence, very pithy. That just boils down to the core of what it is your business does. So for us, we say we're in the business of helping businesses thrive. That's it. Cute. It's short, but it's very core to us, very to the point. So you want to have your values, you want to have your purpose, and then you want to your core strategic goal and that's the goal that's, you know, taking you 20, 15, 20 years out into the future and that sometimes people will use. I think it was Jim Collins one night, one of my favorite business authors he calls it the be had your big hairy audacious goal. What is that? So the vision encompasses all those three components. So you need to have that very clear and you have to be able to articulate that to the individuals that you're trying to recruit. The second step really needs to be back to that org chart, making sure not only do you know what the role is, what they're going to be doing, making sure that you're very clear about what their temperament needs to be. So there's there's like a zillion and one, you know, sort of leadership personality tests that are out there that, you know, there's a desk, there is Myers-Briggs, all those sorts of things that you can sort of know, okay, well, this is the kind of temperament of that person that would make good for this particular position. Yeah. All right. So once you're very clear about what what the business is and what kind of role you're you're going to be doing, then you start, you know, you start doing the recruitment however you want to recruit. I really do believe this. You don't have to recruit Harvard grads in order for you to have a rock star team. My thing is, you want to be recruiting self-motivated people, people who are dragging you, who are like, you know, you know, let's do this, let's do that, let's do that. You have to be like, wow, you know, that's what you really want. Self-motivated people who now, of course, if it's a particular specialty, you do need to have really, you know, trained people, in particular specialty in the business. However, you can train people in the way you do things in your business. Once they are self-motivated, they're in the right role. They're in the right seat. And, you know, they can kind of go forward with that. So I think. 

Can you hear the. The the the Oh. 

Rich Bennett 33:05
That you okay? 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 33:08
I'm really busy up here. My mother has an old school clock in the living room anyway, and that's why I love it. It's so great. 

Rich Bennett 33:17
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Kerry-Ann T. Powell 34:10
But anyway, like I said so you want to you know, so you want to be really clear about what it is that this position means. Like what? What does it take to make this happen? What does it want me to do in that position? So a lot of business owners, they're just like, Oh, we're going to hire someone to take over that role. You Yeah, I believe in delegating, but you should know what it takes for that role to operate before you to sort of randomly hire someone. And the thing is, you know, I definitely agree with having people have a little bit of experience depending upon the role that you're bringing in the man. Obviously, it's leadership. You know, it's a little thing, but I you know, folks are coming from the way they were trained. Okay. So your company is not the same company as other company. So just because someone's had all these years working for this company, now you want to bring them in. Okay, that might work. It might work. Well, you may have some alignment there and such at the same time. I'm really a fan of bringing people in who. Have. The smarts, you know, are self-motivated, are the right proper people to fill, and then just training them to fit into what works for your business. All right. So that's the sort of thing. So when you have a good vision, too, you're really clear about what the role requires. Three, you start recruiting, recruiting wherever you want to recruit, but you don't have to recruit from Harvard. You can recruit from any place. But making sure that the criteria is that these folks are self-motivated and that you can you can you know, they can be they're excited and aligned with your vision, even if you don't. And they're going to be aligned with the direction the company is. You know, this is one what's a shoe company based out of Las Vegas? I keep forgetting the name, but they're you know, they're really been studied a lot in business around their their culture, the corporate culture. And it's really, really clear what they do is they hire people. Right. And I think they give them say, you know, 30, whatever, 40 days and they'll pay them. And then they they reassess and say, hey, look, we will pay you X number of dollars for you to leave, okay? Because either they're not aligned or that person can choose to take the money and leave if they feel like they're in the line. Their culture is so strong in the company that it's like either love it or you hate it kind of thing. Now, of course, you have to be really clear about what that means. Are you excluding other types of people who from different from different races and cultures and backgrounds, You don't want that kind of thing happening your company because first of all, you're only shooting yourself in the foot because there is diversity and there is strength in diversity and also because it's just not right. But when we're talking about culture in the company, it's What do you believe in these values? Are you aligned with them or are you you know, that vision we have that that be had? Are we all about it? And therefore you want to hire that way. And of course, you know, you have to compensate people well, you know, so you have to be very aware of not just the market rate for those roles, but you always want to go a little above because then you, you know, because right now employer brands are is a thing. But, you know, you know, people are looking to see if they if you have a good employer brand. But it's not just about money, it's about recognition. Are you recognizing your team? Well, are you are you giving people the autonomy to to lead in their own small part of the company? Are you allowing them to do the thing, bring their gift things? Because a company is simply a microcosm of society, if you really think about it. So people, you know, stop some crazy people, you know, like myself and you guys are entrepreneurial. We want to just, you know, build a thing and whatever. But some people are like, look, I've got some gifts. I want to bring them to the table and and work in a company where I feel like I'm being recognized and paid well and I can contribute those gifts and then I can live my life. And so are are you creating an environment that allows for those folks who have those great gifts to express them in your company and you get the benefit because you know your company is thriving because you've got these great employees, you're compensating well, you're recognizing people. You're creating a space that people can thrive in, and they have a clear vision as to what they're doing. Because I do strategy, I do strategy all day. I've been doing it my whole career and I believe in strategy and I believe I have a strong strategy. You can make some big things happen at the same time. If you don't have a strong execution process or you don't have an environment where people can execute exceptionally, then you're really in a bind. So because I mean, 67% of strategies fail because of poor execution. So you can have this fantastic strategy, but if you don't have a systematic way of executing, then then you've got a problem. And how do you execute? One of the ways to do that is by building a strong team and recruiting well and making sure that when they're there they are being rewarded not just financially but also recognized. 

Jeffrey Pollard 39:11
I absolutely agree with the employee recognition and I think it's we've come to a point in our culture where it's more than, oh, here's a pizza party for our team performing well. It's do we have good benefits? Are we being compensated fairly? Are we being taken care of as people? Yes. And that's a point to move forward, too. I wanted to backtrack just a little bit. Yeah, because I am very interested in policy and advocacy and everything that revolves around that. And I see how the fundraising aspect of what you did previously moves into this business strategist role. Yeah, So I just kind of want to know how that experience from you being an attorney and a lobbyist helped you in this current role that you're in? 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 39:53
Yeah, I mean, it's all strategy and the any big thing that you need to do, need to have a strong strategy behind it, and then you need to be able to have a plan to be able to execute any big thing requires a strong strategy behind it and a plan to execute. It doesn't have to mean you have to have a big team behind. It you know, I've worked I've led small teams and done big things. And, you know, there's a lot of you know, I always think about, you know, you know, 

Castro, Cuba, you know, Fidel Castro, he had a quote I was talking about. You know, he had you know, he's like, oh, I had, you know, all these people that were part of the team. But truth be told, if I would have had just a small number of men would have gone, we would have been able to accomplish even more, if any any big thing that's ever happened in life. Really tell me happening so small number of people, even if you a large number of people, the 8020 rule is true. 20% of the people do 80% of the work. So you really do need to think about, you know, everything that you do. Any big goal that you are trying to have needs to have a strategy and needs to be able to have a strong execution. So back the question around the policy side of things. You know, one of the things that we were doing was we were when I was leading up this one particular shop, National organization, we were focusing on food safety. We had a project we we wanted to sort of address the issues around food safety and labeling in the country. And 

just we had to spend a great deal of time. This was this was back. And, you know, whenever it was and not many people were very concerned about the safety of our food. Now it's very common conversation around making sure that food is safe. But back in those days, people really weren't focused on that. So we had to really think about what is the true strategy on how were we going to first get people excited about the concept of food safety and then what's the. So that's one strategy. So so the sort of the on the ground strategy, then we had to think about how we were going to be able to get legislator, not just legislators, because this was an issue of food safety is regulated by end of a time. We're looking at genetically modified foods at that particular time. So there were like it was the EPA, the FDA and the USDA were involved in regulating food, food safety in that on that arena, plus, of course, legislation. And then not only when the in the U.S. at the time we were talking about labeling, we're also talking about there's an entity of the USDA which is called the Foreign Aid FFA. Yeah. So that was like four and something other, and that's the entity of the USDA that would be going to any of sort of the international conveniences, like the like with particular entity called Codex, which was the one that was basically deciding on labeling stuff internationally for, for trade. And so that's another entity of the U.S. as a subcomponent that no one really talks about. So we had to think of we had to have a larger strategy plus sub strategies to be able to, with all of the stakeholders that we needed to pull together to sort of talk about it. Not just that we had to have allies, so we had to sort of think about other and other organizations that were interested in this for different reasons and even other entities, other countries that, you know, so their embassies and their their trade people that were being. So this is not just a oh, I'm just going to go on Capitol Hill and have a conversation with a member of Congress. This is a. Large scale strategy and many different moving parts. So that's what I'm saying. When you have a big any big idea and there's got to be like a massive idea where we're trying to change the way that our country eats food, but it can be or building the Martin Luther King Memorial, it can be anything from, you know, whether or not you want to sell it. You want to eventually get your food, your dog food product into target. It's the same concept. If you have a strong strategy, you have a good execution plan. It can happen. But if you're not, if you're not clear around the direction, it's very difficult to make that happen. You'll land somewhere because, you know, change is inevitable, but you're going to land somewhere you didn't plan, right? 

Jeffrey Pollard 43:59
Yeah. I'm glad the conversation took that turn a little bit, because another thing that's very important for small businesses, large businesses alike, is a strategic plan. So I wanted to know, what are you teaching people revolving around strategic planning? How important is that for short term and long term success? And what else can you tell us about it? 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 44:25
Yeah, you know, just I think my my philosophical bent is strategic planning is not just for the big dogs, right? Yeah. People think strategy and it's kind of this thing that people have in their heads. Oh, it's kind of hoity toity. It's kind of up in the air. It's for the the big strategic thinkers, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, No, not so much. It's, you know, you can have a lemonade stand. There needs to be some strategy around it. Right. So I think that first bring in bringing strategy to the ground I think is a philosophical position that I take. And I don't believe that is just for I mean, this is not just an image or a thought process that happens in small businesses. It you know, in large corporations and large NGOs and even, you know, large entities, they always think, oh, yeah, there is these people out there that are really smarter than me that do the strategy right. And I don't believe that at all. So I just want to say first things first. You have to have a strategy. And it's not just for the big dogs. It's for you. And it and actually, I believe that if you're a small and medium sized company, you need a strategy more than the big dogs. The big dogs are kind of rolling off of, you know, years and years of kind of of of things in theory, you know, they could probably skip a year and still execute, probably taking a year to finish the plan, to be honest. But nonetheless. But I do think that there are some you know, when folks like, oh, you know, small businesses like, oh, you know, come in and do strategic plan for us. And we've been you know, we've been kind of stuck lately like, oh yeah, we want to do the strategic plan. We kind of got stuck because we spent all this time doing a pestel analysis or, you know, where our SWOT analysis was kind of on or whatever they were doing. I'm just like, Yeah, So unless you are doing I mean, I've got a company, I've got a client that they actually do work in with law enforcement entities, not just in the US, but also the US and abroad. Okay, So we're looking at the FBI, we're looking at Scotland Yard. So these are so a pestel analysis is one of those things. And of course, don't ask me to tell you the long acronyms, but it's basically an analysis, sort of look at what are some of the the political threats that need to happen in order to assess what you know, where the business is going, a more sort of 

dialed down analysis is what you call a SWOT analysis. Right. And that is, 

again, the analysis is you're looking at strengths, weaknesses, threats and opportunities. So that's what the SWOT is. And even then folks get stuck on it like they're doing all this research. The market reaches out. I'm like, Yeah, you do need to assess these things, but that's where they get stuck on it. And that's because you have these large corporations have actual strategic departments that have tons of money to do a lot of these things. So what I do is I've created a sort of a strategic planning process that I use with my clients that I think allows for them to like, bring it down. That makes sense for the size that they are in for what they're trying to do. And it allows for them to really, really done that. And I have seen so much success too, in increase, creating strategic plans and being able to to roll them out because that's the other part of the process right there is the developing of it. There's the rolling out and then there's the execution of it and the rolling out path. If you don't roll it out, well, you know, you kind of get stuck. You know, it's like. You know, there's like change. Management issues. People like, oh, we've always done it this way or that kind of a thing. So you do what part of that, too, is a lot of folks are like, Oh, you know, the CEO and the leadership team will go away and, you know, on a weekend golf retreat and then, you know, they'll bring me in and do us. I'm like, yeah, that's not how we roll here. Or you have everyone on the team from the person who sweeps the factory floor. Okay. Everyone in this process, because how can you build a strategy. You. Know, when not everyone's involved now, okay, I'm not living in all hands. 

Rich Bennett 48:41
On deck. 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 48:42
All hands. Jeff So, I mean, I get it right. You know, I'm rich. I'm sorry. I get it that there are some things depending on how big or small the company is, they may not want to share, like everyone doesn't have to have access to certain information. So I don't live in la la land. I get it right. So a part of it is sometimes we'll do sort of like a what I kind of say like the first sort of, you know, private strategic plan with, with, with the leader sort of get a direction of where things want to Upworthy want to go. Then we'll bring the whole team in with a framework that's already been created. So it's not just sort of free for all. It does have some like some guardrails, you know, some training wheels. But you still need to bring everyone in on this, particularly when you start going down to, you know, that sort of there's a there's like a tipping point, you know, So let's say the top part is dark, dark blue. You know, that's, of course, a tragic goal thing. And then you sort of think of a funnel and you keep going down the funnel. It starts getting lighter and lighter and lighter to the point where it becomes implementation and execution. And think of that color as white. So at some point, if you're really good at grading the colors, you'll sort of see dark blue, but then you don't really know when it becomes light blue. You don't really know when it becomes grey or white. It's a really, really smooth, seamless process. But when you start getting from sort of idea ideation to practical execution, you need the team to buy and you have to have them there. They have to be a part of that process because in the end they're the ones doing the work. They don't go, Yeah. 

What is that? So you all can go ahead and do the, you know, the weekend golfing trip and come back as if you're like Moses with the Ten Commandments. Say, here we go. But I tell you what, children of Israel are going with it. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 50:33
So, Karen, can you actually share a personal experience or even a case study where you helped the business navigate through chaos and establish smooth operations? 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 50:43
Yeah, absolutely. I think there's so many great stories, right? I would say let's go back with the company that we worked with had like a terrible toxic situation. The owner didn't realize it. So what we did with that was obviously there were other challenges in there. One of it was one of the other challenges they were dealing with was a lack of process regarding 

their accounts receivables. Okay. So a lot of it's just like I know that when you particularly you're selling into large entities, corporations, large governmental facilities, sometimes the net can be, you know, all the way up to net nine you right, net net 30 days you want it in choices submitted like net net 60 days, like 90 days. I mean, goodness gracious, I had a client who they were selling for like I'm one of the blue chip companies like Fortune 100, and they'd pay like a year later. So what I'm just saying, but you negotiate that when in the negotiation process and of course you're dealing with a large entity, so then whatever. But so it was a power power structure. Okay. There's a there's a power play there depending upon how large your business is versus but for the company or selling into. But nonetheless, that's negotiated. And already in the process you know that someone you're doing your forecasts you know okay that that bill is going to come due in three in three months. But what was happening this particular client's company was that that was not the negotiated agreement. 

And yet she was basically a bank because the number of clients that were not paying on time. So the consulting companies. So of course, it's high touch. It's they're with them for a while. We're not paying on time. It was unreal. But because there was no trust system in place to be able to ensure there's some really tactical things you can do to ensure your clients, your customers actually pay on time. First of all, automating, you know, accounts of accounts receivable, having someone on your team that's just there, even if you don't think you do, you need to have someone as full doing accounts receivable. Definitely having someone that's that's their responsibility, even if it's a part time role, but definitely having automation. So we help them sort of create some some good systems in place re completely revamping their contracts so that there were some things in the contracts that were, that were agreed upon upon so that when time came. So there are some things that you and once you sort of implemented all this, it was an interesting rollout, right? We have some companies and customers that have been with you for a bit. You have to have some difficult conversations, that kind of stuff. But nonetheless, once that was in place, you took a snapshot, you know, six months later after full roll out of that of the new system and oh, my goodness, cash flow became more positive than negative. Right. On a regular basis, you see the cash flow that alone because you can me Yeah. You know, and we've got you know, we're we're grown, we've got all these new new customers, we've got all these new we've got, you know, revenue coming in. We're selling like high profits. We've got a good profit margin, all of that good stuff. Right? But if you don't have systems for. Accounts receivable, then you got a. Problem. So that alone was an example. Then of course, we had to deal with a team problem. And that was also another thing, you know, unfortunately, that let some folks go because, you know, when you let things fester just like that, it's kind of like when you have, you know, vegetables and fruits or leftovers in your fridge, right? At some point they like you just you can't even throw away the food and wash the container. You just got to throw away the whole container. Yeah, you leave it. There for way too long. Is now is gross. Not no amount of. 

Rich Bennett 54:26
Mold and grow. 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 54:29
So there's. It's so sometimes if you let things fester in your business such as team problems, 

you have to sometimes sort of let people go. So this is another part of the problem was we had to sort of let some people go. We had to retrain a couple of folks and then we had to move some folks to different positions. Eventually, she was able to 

develop a strong staff that now is really working, actually, even when I mean, this particular client, you know, she had a situation in her life and she was able to sort of step away. She was able to start traveling a lot more. She traveled for a number of months from the year without feeling like the company is going to explode of the strong team. But this is not this is not like it's not like, oh, poof, we're going to do this. And it happened. It took some hard, difficult conversations. It was hard. It was being strategic about what makes sense, what kinds of things. And and also testing. Yeah, you know, we're human beings. We're not like, you know, look, you're we're trying to get you to be a good leader, but sometimes you make poor choices. So there were some things where, you know, one of the things that, you know, we realized was that she needed to have a of staff in the company. So she hired a chief of staff that was not that wasn't a good hire. So that was a you know, there was some runway time. And then we realized it wasn't a good hire. So she had to then let that person go. But her chief of staff, the new person, is fantastically great. So I think a part of it, too, is recognizing that you're not you're not like, you know, you know, God send magic worker. I was the role that, you know, that's happening in your business. Even the strategies and tactics you're put into place aren't always going to work. But that's one example. Those are two main components that we found were really problematic in the business and in terms of systems and also team. And once you sort of fix that, you began to see the charts, the revenue charts go up because we were like, Well, what does team have to do with revenue? ALL Hello, What is, you know, So at the end you have the revenue in cash, you know, it's king in the business and if anything that's affecting that needs to be fixed. And so that's one example. I would say. 

Rich Bennett 56:36
Something very important. MM Tell everybody how they can get the document, how they can find you in case they want to, you know, hire you, hire you or your business and basically how everybody can get in contact you. 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 56:50
Absolutely. So, you know, first things I you know, I believe in human connection and contact. And so, you know, I hang out on LinkedIn quite a bit. 

Send me a message to say, hey, I'm with Ritz Crew. You know, I hang out with Jeff. You know, we're, you know, say hi. And what I'm saying. I like. 

Rich Bennett 57:10
To say that that's how she knows the hit the delete if you. 

Jeffrey Pollard 57:14
Yeah. Accidental really vicious Yeah yeah. 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 57:17
Sorry this person's like something and and you try to. 

But really say hello and let's say hi because I think that's really important. However, if you feel as if some of the things we talked about or at least the four symptoms of chaos that we talked about earlier are somewhere, you know, in your business, if you felt like you were stepping on your toes a little bit, then I would recommend downloading the book. It's the true culprits causing chaos in your business. You can find it at no business chaos dot com, no business chaos dot com. And just put your name and email address. We'll send it out to you and I think that you know you will be able to identify at least one of the some one of the underlying culprits that could be causing chaos in your business. And here's my advice, because sometimes people get it and they're just. Like, Oh my God, it's everyone else. All of those. Problems. And I always just simply say, think of it as triggered, you know, breathe, think inventory of what's going fire, fire, fire, and pick that one thing and start on that. You can't you can't do them all but start on the thing that's really fire, fire, fire and fix that. Remember, company 1.0 still has to continue to operate. You still have to keep fulfilling customers and all of that stuff. Think of it as doing company 2.0 over here where you're spending some time investing in being a leader of a business, fixing those problems, moving them into company. One point if you keep doing it strategic and deliberately, eventually you realize we got a better company, it can run smoothly and it can thrive well. 

Rich Bennett 58:57
Before I get to my final question now is, Jeff, if he has another question for you. 

Jeffrey Pollard 59:04
You know, I think we had a really good discussion today. You touched on policy and advocacy, nonprofit leadership, organizational leadership, all of the great things that we all care about. So I just I want to know kind of how you gathered this passion throughout everything that you've done. I know you've touched on that a little bit, but where did this passion really come from? What have you seen? What experiences have been there that really got you here? 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 59:35
That's a that's a good question. I, I think, 

you know, I used to always say, oh, you know, it's you know, as I, you know, process through life and I became more interested in entrepreneurship and blah, blah, blah. But I think the reality is I always felt from a very, very young age that business ownership, 

entrepreneurship was wholly that it was good. A lot of my dad's friends owned businesses. They are the ones who were supporting our community stuff. All right. Well, there was a problem at the church. You know, some they were going to the ones, you know, try providing the financial support to fix it. And so I always when I think of business and I think of business leaders, I don't really have a sour 

I have a very positive view of what it means to be a leader in business as a result, as I as I as I evolved and as I grew, they knew I was the president of the future business leaders of America when I was in junior high school. But but as I as I evolved, though, and really began to experience the real world as an adult, particularly, you know, through through some of the fundraising that I did through my work, through the United Way, Also, as an as an attorney, I realize that organizations, particularly businesses, you know, you think about small and medium sized companies, two thirds in the United States, two thirds of people work for a small and medium sized company. That's a lot of people you start thinking about. More than 90% of businesses are small and medium size in the U.S. and in other parts of the world, it's larger. So you start thinking about our GDP's, our economic stability, the number of people that are working for small, medium sized companies, it makes sense that you would want to have these companies grow, thrive, scale and be able to produce value. And I have a particular affinity to the owners because in the end it some folks this is what this is their life's work. They built, they built a business, they're building a business, and they are leaving something behind as a result. I really believe that if you can leave it in a way that one is thriving, it is growing, it's producing the value you're contributing to your community through your tax and for the taxes that you are giving through create the infrastructure of your communities. So, you know, supporting the little leagues, you're supporting the families of the employees that work for you, you're creating a whole different. Why do you think the middle class exist, particularly coming out of Michigan because of the car industry. Okay, so that's something around if you have that gifting to be a business owner, the leverage that you can support an entire class of people to be able to exist. So I'm very passionate about it because if you're going to do it, do it well. Do it because why would you not? So that I think that's where I'm passionate about it. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:45
All right, Kerry. And you ready? 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 1:02:48
Yep. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:48
It's a you've you've been on several podcasts. You've been interviewed by God. A lot of people. A lot of different people. So my question to you is, out of all of those interviews that you've been on, is there anything that a host has never asked you that you wish they would have asked you? And so what would be that question and what would be your answer? 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 1:03:16
Oh, gosh, this is a hard one, right? Oh, I told you 

I was expecting it. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:25
Doesn't this it doesn't necessarily have to be about, you know, your business or anything. It could be about you. It could be about anything. 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 1:03:33
Yeah, well, okay. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:34
Nothing that you would like our listeners to know. 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 1:03:36
Well, you know, let me tell you, I have a very creative side. I really was I was a thespian in high school, and I still pretend that I know how to act. 

So I used to. Literally write plays. And of course, you know, it's I'm one of three in the middle child's. My brother's older, so he wasn't playing with us. So my younger sister was the one to do it. So I write these plays. And like long extended plays, several act. My sister was so she dress up in all of the. Different costumes, become all the different characters. Okay. And she's still traumatized to this day. We are grateful. I still remember Whitney Houston. I'm like, Oh, yes, I've got it. I'm sorry. Therapy about this. All right. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:30
So are you still writing new plays? 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 1:04:32
I haven't written a play, but I do still do. Quite a bit of singing and I yeah, I love anything creative. Honestly, I've been thinking about doing it. Huh? Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:45
So what is it that you love to sing? 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 1:04:47
Well, you know. I guess I might say that I really enjoy. Not to be cliche, but, you know, I'm a pastor's kid, so I grew up singing gospel or, you know, Christian music. And so I still do lean very much towards that. But I do like sort of ballads, sort of slower tunes, little bit of folksy. 

Rich Bennett 1:05:13
All right. I'm trying to think of how I can have you sing us something. 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 1:05:17
That I am not singing. I 

Love 

Your. 

Rich Bennett 1:05:26
Terry is like, No, Rich, you already asked me that last question. You could not ask me to do anything else. Forget it. We're done. 

Jeffrey Pollard 1:05:34
Yes, you're done. 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 1:05:37
Only if we sing together. 

Rich Bennett 1:05:43
Sinead That now what? What was it? 

Did you just say? Only if we all sing together. 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 1:05:51
Oh, we all sing together. 

Rich Bennett 1:05:54
I On that note, Carrie and I want to thank you so much. 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 1:05:58
See, that's how I get. You know, you got to. 

Rich Bennett 1:06:03
If I sing, nobody will listen to this show anymore. 

So thank you so much. Thank you for everything you're doing. And God, people, you're listening. Make sure you get the document if you want to. If you want to help your business, if you're having any problems. Yeah. That chaos they give Carrie and Nicole and Jeff. I want to thank you, too, man. This is Jeff's first time cohost. How do you think he did Carrie in Rock On. 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 1:06:33
I can't wait to see when you start yours very much. 

Rich Bennett 1:06:37
Once he did good, he did good. I mean, now it's for those of you listening, you can't see it. But the only thing that would have made it better for Jeff is if he was wearing Ravens attire instead of Steelers. 

Jeffrey Pollard 1:06:51
Can't do it. 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 1:06:53
I was worried about that 

because now it's in the bag. 

Jeffrey Pollard 1:06:59
I don't you. 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 1:07:00
Know the Steelers. Oh, no. He's always hardcore. Oh, he's hardcore. Uh huh. Oh, okay. Okay. You got roots then. You got roots. 

Jeffrey Pollard 1:07:08
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:07:09
No. Well, yeah, sort of. Doesn't matter. 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 1:07:12
He's like, how many generations back in Pittsburgh are we talking? 

Jeffrey Pollard 1:07:17
It's just my dad. I got it from him. I was, like, seven, eight years old, and I was like, I like the Steelers. What am I going to do? Say, I don't like them? I mean, I just think that. 

Rich Bennett 1:07:26
Oh, we didn't have the Ravens at the time either. 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 1:07:29
Well, fair enough. Fair enough. Fair enough. No. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:07:33
That's that's his excuse and that's what he's sticking with. 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 1:07:36
It allows for you to live in Maryland without being like, you know, jumped. 

Jeffrey Pollard 1:07:42
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:07:43
Unless it's honest. Unless you tell a Steelers Ravens player. 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 1:07:47
Exactly. Exactly. 

Jeffrey Pollard 1:07:49
I actually went to the Ravens draft party with the T.J. Ward jersey on and I didn't have too many fans there. 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 1:07:55
Oh, I see. That's just wrong. I'm sorry. Yeah. You know, I. Liked you for a moment there. And then that was wrong. 

Oh, 

hey, Jeff. 

Jeffrey Pollard 1:08:10
Pride fandom. 

Rich Bennett 1:08:12
Jeff, Go, go. Worry. I'll still I'll still ask you to co-host to 

bridge. Yeah. Thanks a. 

Kerry-Ann T. Powell 1:08:20
Lot. Oh, you're very welcome. Thank you for having me on. I appreciate what Enjoyed a pleasure.