Tate Barkley on Addiction, Recovery, and Embracing Identity

In this powerful episode of "Conversations with Rich Bennett," sponsored by "Daniel McGhee & The Victory Team," we delve deep into the life of Tate Barkley, a seasoned attorney, educator, and author with a compelling story of struggle, resilience, and triumph. Tate opens up about his journey through addiction, the profound impact of personal integrity, and the challenging path to self-acceptance in a conservative environment. From his formative years shaped by debate camps to his tumultuous relationship with alcohol and the transformative power of recovery, Tate shares how these experiences led to the writing of his introspective memoir, "Sunday Dinners, Moonshine, and Men."

Listeners will be moved by Tate's candid discussion on the
significance of mentorship, the pivotal moments that led him to seek help, and
the role of forgiveness in his recovery. His reflections on personal identity,
the complexities of father-son relationships, and finding love and stability
offer invaluable insights and hope to those facing similar struggles. Sponsored
by "Daniel McGhee & The Victory Team," this episode is a
testament to the courage it takes to confront one's demons and the
transformative power of embracing one's true identity. Join us for a journey of
discovery, healing, and the ultimate embrace of one's authentic self.

Here are links for you to bookmark, save, follow, memorize, write down, and share with others:

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Transcript

Rich Bennett 0:00
Thanks for joining the conversation where we explore the stories and experiences that shape our world. I'm your host, Rich Bennett. And today we're joined by the remarkable Tate Barkley. Tate is a seasoned attorney, educator and author known for his deep commitment to personal integrity, ethics and mental wellness. With 30 years in law and 20 years as an adjunct professor, his experience is extensive. He has authored the introspective memoir Sundy Dinners, Moonshine and Men, where he candidly shares his journey through addiction, shame and self-acceptance and active community leader. He now lives in Houston with his husband and dog. So I got to ask, first of all, what kind of dog? 

Tate Barkley 0:47
I have a King, Charles Cavalier. His name's Emerson, and he runs the house. 

Rich Bennett 0:53
He 

knows. It doesn't always seem like the case. 

Rich. Oh, God. I'm. I know. When we had the dog, it ran the house. And cats. Cats are cats. Just run everything. Yeah. 

Tate Barkley 1:13
I don't want to be. You know, a cat would subject me to to to to, you know, indentured servitude. So it's all I can do to handle the dog. 

Rich Bennett 1:27
Well, before. We get into the book, I have to ask you, because 30 years in law. Yeah, 20 years as an adjunct professor, way back in. I always loved to ask people this because, you know, in high school, they're always 

selling kids to have a career path. This is what, you know, like you're supposed to know what you want to do when you're in high school. Of course, we know most of them change your mind either halfway through life or whatever. But back in high school, was it your dream to always be a lawyer? 

Tate Barkley 2:00
It was. I mean, I can tell you, I knew that. You know, I joke with people that whenever I graduated the University of Texas at Austin and I graduated UT in in 1987, and I joke with people I said, there I was, I had a Bachelor of Arts degree in government. I had no real talent, no identifiable skills and a degree in government. So the only choice I had was to go to law school. And, you know, so so there I went. But but the fact of the matter is, is that I knew that I kind of wanted to be a lawyer from from eighth grade. And I was very lucky that I went to a debate camp at Baylor University here in Waco, Texas. And it was for. 

Rich Bennett 2:44
Whoa. 

Tate Barkley 2:45
Yeah, yeah, it was for kids that wanted to do high school debate. And my my public speaking teacher in eighth grade 

basically invited down the high school debate coach to listen to me speak in her class. And after that, the debate coach pulled me out from Dobie, said, Well, you're come to Dobie next year, which was the high school I went to. And she says, Now you're a pretty good speaker for your age. Have you ever thought about debate? And I said, I'm not sure I know what debate is. She explained it to me and I said, Yeah, I think I'd like to do that. Well, she and she looked at me, goes, I don't have time to train you because we're a competitive team. And I don't have time to train. So I recommend you go to Baylor debate Camp in Waco, Texas this summer. That way you're going to be ready to compete and hit the ground running. Whenever you get to me in the fall. And I said, Oh, great. And I said, Well, does it cost? And she says, Yeah, it costs cost costs a lot. So at that moment, Rich, my heart just dropped to my feet because my family did not have a lot of money. My dad worked in the refinery at the time. We just moved to Houston. I had there were six of us at home. So long story short, here at the end of the day, my dad pitched in $125, which was his total savings in the two teachers. My speech teacher in eighth grade and the debate coach kicked in their own money to finish the difference so that I wow. And the rest was history after that. I loved it. 

Rich Bennett 4:16
Yeah, I. Too. I never heard of base camp. Yeah. 

Tate Barkley 4:21
And I just had two angels in my life. Two public school teachers that that that really that that use their own doggone money in order to help me do something. And it changed my life. I mean, I didn't look at myself as a lawyer at the time we had come from we'd come from the rural south, you know, I'd seen farmers and my uncles were either farmers or worked in the furniture plant and my an either homemakers or worked in the textile mills. That's just what life was like where I was from in North Carolina. So we didn't see much beyond that until, you know, we got to Houston and then. Right. But now, you know, to to to go to debate camp. And then once I got to debate camp, these kids were something I mean, they were just out of eighth grade and they were smart and they were competitive. They were in a whole new league, you know. And you know what? It's right to be around people who are competitive. I mean, you got to hustle. 

Rich Bennett 5:15
Just. 

Tate Barkley 5:16
You just to keep up, you know? 

Rich Bennett 5:18
Yeah. 

Tate Barkley 5:19
I mean, you got to be, you know, just to be in the middle. You got to work hard. And and so that's kind of what took over for me then. So, yeah, that's when I, when I got out of that debate camp, I said, you know what? I think I'm going to be a lawyer. And my dad said, Great, we need a lawyer in the family. 

Rich Bennett 5:37
Wow. 

Tate Barkley 5:38
So yeah, it was part of the plan. 

Rich Bennett 5:42
Now, how long was debate camp? 

Tate Barkley 5:44
It was for two solid weeks. And they taught you how to the technical part of of doing forensic what they call forensic debate in high school. And they helped to build what we call the affirmative topic which is your topic where you were trying to persuade the judge. They taught you how to be on the negative team, which is how you defeat the affirmative team's arguments if they're trying to turn right. And it was all really it's very in how you're taught to speak and use evidence. It's it's it's it's it's a great it's a great starting point for someone who's interested in the law. 

Rich Bennett 6:20
Wow. I bet that may be like Toastmasters. You go boot to both of them. You would be a force to be reckoned. 

Tate Barkley 6:28
With, you to go, man. Absolutely. And I encouraged I did it for a little while, but I did just not to sidetrack wherever you wanted to go on the podcast. Sorry about that. Ridge, but I. 

Rich Bennett 6:38
That's you. Oh, no, no, no. 

Tate Barkley 6:40
It's but I'll say it is if you want. If you're a kid in Texas and you want to learn how to debate, you know, certainly Baylor debate hands are a great place to go, but Toastmasters, whether you have a fear of public speaking or you wanted to improve your skills for public speaking, it's a great place to go. It really, really is. It's a great place to go. 

Rich Bennett 7:02
Yeah, I just because I know when my daughter was in school, somebody had asked her to to join the debate club and she didn't want to join because she says she doesn't like to argue. But to me it also helps you to be number one, to become a better speaker. I think it helps you to think right away of things. I think it it and basically make friends. And something that's missing today, I think it actually helps you hold a conversation. 

Tate Barkley 7:41
I agree. 

Rich Bennett 7:42
Or even start a conversation. 

Tate Barkley 7:44
And, you know, one of the things that know not only that all of those things are true, but another thing that debate does is that you have to organize your thoughts. And then if you have an opinion about something, that's fine. But if you want me to believe your opinion or think that you're right, you've got to bring me some evidence. So even at eighth grade, you're looking up evidence and we're quoting experts and we're looking in magazines and studies and all of these things in order to bolster the arguments we're making as as whether we're on the affirmative team or the negative team in the debate. I have to tell you, I you know, I was a very scattered thinker as a kid. My husband is a developmental and behavioral pediatrician. And he says, wow. Yeah. And he says, you know, one of the things he's not only deals with kids on the autism, but also that have attention deficit disorder. And he says, you know, he says you have that. But, you know, you're coming up in the sixties and early seventies, 

schools didn't test for that kind of thing, you know. 

Rich Bennett 8:46
No matter what it was. 

Tate Barkley 8:48
Yeah. If you acted out or you got distracted, you just you just got paddled or sent to the beach. 

Rich Bennett 8:53
Yeah. 

Tate Barkley 8:54
You know, that was the remedy. You know, there was no test in or someone coming in to help you out. That's just how they handled all of this. So, you know, I learned that later in life. But but yeah, so, so from a personal level, it helped me because I really like to do it. And I think when when a kid 

finds something that they really like to do, it helps them focus no matter what they're up against because they want to do it and they want to do it well and debate about me and every subject that I had because it began teaching me how to organize my thoughts so I can present them to other people and so I can convince you that listen to me, I incorrect, let me win. And here's all the ten reasons why I should win this debate round. And it wound up helping me in a lot of different ways. And the other thing that I was kind of like Friday Night Football, you know, the other thing that helped me is if I didn't make good grades, I couldn't compete and. 

Rich Bennett 10:00
Oh. 

Tate Barkley 10:01
So I couldn't go to the the debate tournaments and the speech competitions and all of that on Friday and Saturday. If my grades weren't good a certain level. So it kind of forced me to prioritize my grades because I absolutely, positively wanted to go debate and whatever I needed to do to make that happen I was going to make happen. 

Rich Bennett 10:27
It's something you just mentioned in her speech. Yeah. So I take it you wrote you were writing speeches as well? 

Tate Barkley 10:35
Yeah. Yeah, I did several contest areas and I wanted to debate. Okay. Here in Texas High School forensics, as they call it here in Texas, you can compete in extemporaneous speaking where you draw a topic and you draw a topic in from whatever that topic may be. And then you've got 30 minutes to prepare a little 8 to 10 minute speech to give to the judges. And wow or position that you've had. And then I also competed in something known as a regional oratory, and that was also an 8 to 10 minute speech. And it was it was more of more of a traditional style of speaking where you had a topic and and you came in very prepared and you typically used the same speech in every competition, unless that speech wasn't working for the judges. So I competed with two areas to an eventual aide. By the time I was a senior, I only competed in awards. I gave up debate just so I could focus on persuasive extent. There was a category called Persuasive Extemporaneous speech. So in I wound up being a state competitor, you know, at that. So that was just something I enjoyed doing. 

Rich Bennett 11:53
Man, I wish I knew about this stuff. When I was back in high school. I got a lot of that. Yeah. Okay. So you're writing speeches. You learn how to debate. Were you written any, you know, like for school papers or anything like that? 

Tate Barkley 12:11
Well, you know, I was just doing whatever the English teacher or whatever class I was doing. I did not consider myself a writer. I considered myself. 

Rich Bennett 12:19
Okay. 

Tate Barkley 12:20
Yeah. I never wanted to grow up. I'd be honest, you know, 

I never it was never an ambition of mine to grow up and to be an author. And, you know, Sunday dinners, moonshine and men. You know, the memoir I've got out now just it kind of just happened. You know, it wasn't just this this goal. You know, the book, you know, we call it a memoir, but the book was was it's really about my relationship with my dad. And about a year after my dad had passed, you know, and he and I, he was probably the most impactful person in my life of all people. But we had a very tumultuous relationship. And he was an alcoholic. I was an alcoholic. He never found recovery, even though I did. And, you know, there's a lot that goes there's a lot of combat stability when you get to alcoholics, you know, with a different view of the world together, particularly when his father and son, because you know that that can be a committed relationship inherently. Father and son can be a complicated relationship. So but nonetheless, I never considered myself an author. But, you know, having I've been sober for 25 years now and part of the the and I got sober in AA, I mean, that's that's just what worked for me in part of conditions in AA. There's a lot of writing involved into work. 

Rich Bennett 13:54
Through like journaling. 

Tate Barkley 13:56
And your fear. So I came from a tradition of where, where if something's bothering you, you write about it right? And I found myself writing about my dad and all of these things that I still felt that I had not dealt with in his lifetime or before he died. And and oddly, I decided, you know, I'm just going to get this transcribed because I handwrite. I still handwrite most things. Yeah, I'm going to get this transcribed. So I gave it to the transcriptionist at work and she gave it back to me and I didn't think much of it. And of course I got busy at work. Well, about two or three months later I get this knock on my office door and it's the transcriptionist and she says, Do you have any more work for me? And I said, Well, you know, I gave you this is back when I dictated on tapes. I said, You know, I gave you this, write Abby that. And she said, No, about your book. And I said, What book? You know. 

Rich Bennett 14:54
The book. Yeah. I like the book. Yeah, the book. 

Tate Barkley 15:01
And I said, Well, why do you want more? She says, I want to know how it ends. And I said, Really? 

Rich Bennett 15:09
So I wish I could talk with you about, Oh my God. 

Tate Barkley 15:14
I was inspired and I was on a mountain and God, you know, opened up the clouds and said, Write a book, take. But how it happened, you know, the lady who. 

Rich Bennett 15:25
Wrote this, she said. 

Tate Barkley 15:28
Yeah, well, I know how it ends. 

Rich Bennett 15:33
That's you know, that's funny, because that's when, you know, you have something good. You know? And the same thing happened with my daughter. My daughter when she was in high school or knows college. She was taking a a writing course. And we're sat down at the dinner table and she asked if she could read what she wrote for the class to my wife and I. And we're like, Yeah, of course. And we're listening. She's going on and on. And she ended with the guy in the old pickup truck was driving up to the farmhouse and the lady was on the front porch and he was getting out of the truck and that's where it ended. And I'm like, What the hell. Happened? Yeah, what do you do? So then she was like, I think the following week or two weeks later, she had a do another one and she just she carried it was again, as you read it to us, and I don't even know what it was about. It was about something completely different. As she finished it, she's like, What did you think? I said, It had nothing to do with the guy in the truck. What the hell. Happened to the guy in the truck? And to this day, I still want to know what happened to the guy in the truck. But that's it. When you have somebody whose attention like that, it you. You, you had somebody there and actually did she edit the book for you as well? You know. 

Tate Barkley 17:08
She she helped us off and on, but she contributed. There's no doubt about it. 

Rich Bennett 17:12
Okay. But with with the book, because I love the title Sunday Dinners, Moonshine and Men, How did you come up with that title? 

Tate Barkley 17:21
Well, the book is divided up kind of in thirds. And of course, and I divided up by the title Sunday Dinners, Moonshine Man and Sunday dinners comes from this when I when I was very young and talking four or five, six, seven, you know, in that time frame, if things were very chaotic, we I lived in a very chaotic house. We were moving here and there and I was going in between parents and it was just a lot going on. But but the one place that I always felt safe, the one place I always looked forward to was going to my grandmother Kirkman's on Sunday, and she was probably the sweetest, kindest woman I've ever known. And of course we would spend the night with her on Saturday and she'd get up and would eat a big breakfast. And I love breakfast food and then we'd get ready for church and we would go to church. And I was with her the whole time. And then we would come back. It was like she was doing a dance when she would make Sunday dinner, you know, we'd have countryfile steak and mashed potatoes that she made herself and brown gravy that she made out of frying the steak. And then she had, you know, grew green beans in her garden and she would stain those and she would have all this food and real biscuits like homemade biscuits. And every Sunday she did a peach cobbler or an apple pie or a pecan pie or something like that every Sunday You're. 

Rich Bennett 18:44
Killing me here. 

Tate Barkley 18:46
I mean, so being with her and having that day and that dinner with her always, you know, cause we call it dinner. Lunch was dinner in the South, you know, so. 

Rich Bennett 18:58
Right. 

Tate Barkley 18:58
Right. So, so that's that's what it came from. I wanted to attribute, you know, part of the book to how safe and special that she made me feel. We're at a time of real chaos. And and it also equates to the fact that I grew in my formative years up until 12. I lived in a very, very conservative place. And it didn't matter what denomination you belong to. All of them pretty much felt the same way. And by the time I was about 11 or 12, I recognized that I was different. I recognized that I was starting to be attracted to other guys. And I also knew how the culture that I lived in felt about that. And I lived in a culture where you are, you're saying, you know, right in, in, in in my thoughts, in the feelings that I was having at the time, it was made very clear to me were an abomination. And that being homosexual was, they would say or being gay was an abomination and an affront to God. So so that Sunday dinners, it's just sort of stands there as kind of a describe of what I was going through at the time to wear church Right. Grandmother who was so devoted to church gave me so much peace and so much love and so much solace. But as I started growing up, the message that I got in church was very was was different. It was. 

Rich Bennett 20:26
Right. 

Tate Barkley 20:27
From how I felt. So that's kind of where Sunday dinners come from. 

Moonshine comes from several reasons. 

The most obvious of one is that I was a drunk for a good part of my alcohol, you know, my life and and my dad was a practicing alcoholic and my dad ran moonshine out of high school. And yeah, he was a moonshine runner. And not only that, my great my what would be my great grandmother made moonshine. We had partly right of land between third and fifth Creek in Iredell County, North Carolina, and she had three stills on Third Street during Prohibition. And she is known as a very formidable woman, and she was also known to have the best corn liquor in the county. So moonshine sort of was a tradition in the family from her. 

Rich Bennett 21:25
Right. 

Tate Barkley 21:26
To my Paul to my and my grandfather to my dad and my dad, Raymond. And he had a big story. I start the book out, actually, the chapter is called Tape G, and that's my dad and I started the chapter of the first chapter. The book is a story Dad used to tell about running moonshine up in the mountains and how and how he was trying to flee. 

Rich Bennett 21:51
A. 

Tate Barkley 21:53
Sheriff who was chasing after it and what happened. So, you know, it's quite the tale of moonshine Run and. 

Rich Bennett 22:01
Wow. 

Tate Barkley 22:02
Dad loved telling that story. So so that's how I start the book with with, you know, a police chase. 

Rich Bennett 22:10
With my dad. 

Tate Barkley 22:10
Running moonshine in a 1954 Dodge Coronet, so. 

Rich Bennett 22:15
Oh, yeah. 

Wow. And of course, the men part. 

Tate Barkley 22:21
Man parts. 

Rich Bennett 22:21
About you coming out, right? 

Tate Barkley 22:23
Yeah, it's all about that. You nailed it. It's all about coming out and the struggle I had. And in building that life as a as a out, proud gay man. And the struggle that I had was right. Yeah. So that's that part. That's exactly right. 

Rich Bennett 22:38
And when was it released? September the. 

Tate Barkley 22:41
25th. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 22:42
So it was September 23. 

Tate Barkley 22:44
It's only been out about four months now. So we're really pleased with with everything 

with the book. And it's been a good experience for me writing it too. 

Rich Bennett 22:55
So I'll just ask you how long it took you to write. 

Tate Barkley 22:59
Your Hill 

on and off. I got to tell you, man, I'd have to say seven or eight years. I'd pick it up and put it down and pick it up. I'd put it down and then find you. 

Rich Bennett 23:14
When you started it, you didn't expect you weren't thinking about it being a book, Right? Right. 

Tate Barkley 23:19
No, I was just trying to work through some feelings. I had, you know, like, Oh, I. I'm gonna turn this into a book. Okay, now what do I do? So it. But I would get busy at work, you know, as you talked about or the show on the Practice, I had my love for my partner and I have been practice practicing for a while. And then I taught 

ethics at the University of Houston during that time. And and I would just get busy and I would pick it up and I would put it down. And then finally, I'll tell you this, when the pandemic hit and I found myself at home a lot and a spare time, you know, I didn't know how much 

time I had. You know, I always thought I was nobody. 

Rich Bennett 24:05
Did, right. 

Tate Barkley 24:06
You know, then I couldn't go anywhere. And all of a sudden I was like, oh, my God. And then I got serious about really doing this book and finishing it. And that's and that's really when I burned down and I was with a publisher and I got to tell on myself here a little bit rich, because I thought, Well, if I'm going to tell this story, I'm going to do it right. My God. 

Rich Bennett 24:28
Right. 

Tate Barkley 24:29
And so I finally located a lady who was a strategic editor and, if you will, and also a publisher, and the same person who wound up publishing the book for me, Deborah and I sent it to her and said, Here's what do you think? And it was 658 pages and and. 

Rich Bennett 24:52
Deb and. 

Tate Barkley 24:54
Deb looked at me and she says, I'm going to have to be honest with you today, no one is going to buy a 658 page book about somebody they never heard of. 

Rich Bennett 25:06
So we need to narrow this down a little bit. So that's. Oh, wow. 

Tate Barkley 25:14
For all your listeners out there, it's only 243 pages now, so I'm just letting you know, we cut. 

Rich Bennett 25:19
Through, narrowed it down a lot. 

Tate Barkley 25:21
We had to Oh, my God. You know, if you wanted to know, you know, I like detail just as a person. I like a lot of detail. Right. So I would go back and look and she would say, Gosh, you just got so much detail. Like, if I'm telling you a story about shooting pool at Showdown in Austin, I'm describing what's on the jukebox. I'm describing who was there, I'm describing this, I'm doing this. And in and I will put you in that pool hall in 1983, Austin, and you'll know exactly what it looks like. And Deb was just looking at me. Look, you can't devote four pages to describe in a pool hall to tell a story. 

Rich Bennett 26:02
We got to throw this down. 

Tate Barkley 26:08
Now, I know you like cool, but, man. 

Rich Bennett 26:12
You got. 

Tate Barkley 26:12
To ease. 

Rich Bennett 26:12
Up. 

Which will. Be. The thing is that grade is 6 hours, so my pages is long. Yeah, I like describing. That stuff in porn. The listener or the listener pool in the reader in to make them believe they're there is important. Yeah, that's one of the things one of the things I've noticed when I've talked to several authors, especially the ones that write novels, the research that they do. And the thing is, if they're not, if they don't pinpoint every little detail, yeah, a reader will call them out on it. Yeah. If like, if you're talking about, you know, they were walking the streets of so-and-so back in AG, you know, and the tar was sticking to their shoes, you know. Now they didn't have tar. There was cobblestone streets back that just little things like that. It's amazing. Like somebody was so me, she was her and her editor pulled it out or picked it out and she was talking about how 

the one character in the book had woke up because, you know, it was sunrise and he could see the sunrise and from his bedroom window. Well, the editor pointed out that that can't be correct. And she's like, well, why not? She said, because on only in the other chapter you were talking about how his bedroom was facing The bedroom window was facing in another direction, which would have put it at sunset. 

Tate Barkley 27:47
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 27:48
So, I mean, just weird things like that. But it's I love that would be hell. I would want to know what was on the jukebox of that bullhorn, to be. Honest with you, I. 

Tate Barkley 27:59
Swear to God I did. 

Rich Bennett 28:00
And I may have been that for. Yeah, I'll tell you. So. You all right? So you have. And this is because this is your first book, right? I wrote your first and only book. 

Tate Barkley 28:16
Well. Well, I wrote a little book for my students called Success. Okay, well, decision making Get what you want without getting in trouble. And I wrote that in 2007 and. Okay. Yeah, I never I always looked upon it as a study aid. But, you know, I didn't push it through Amazon and I did do all of that. 

Rich Bennett 28:39
But okay. Yeah. 

Tate Barkley 28:40
But certainly. 

Rich Bennett 28:41
This one is the first one where you've had a publisher. 

Tate Barkley 28:44
You got. Yeah, right. Correct? That's correct, yes. 

Rich Bennett 28:47
All right. How was it that you got the publisher? 

Tate Barkley 28:51
We just found each other, you know, I had more. We had we had I worked with a lady, really smart lady, my law firm and I had worked with a lady named Janet Switzer, who is who's just brilliant in my mind. She worked with Jet Jack Cantwell on the Chicken Soup for the Soul series, and that's four principals and so anyway, we had worked with her on some other stuff about alternate income streams and stuff like that. And then I talked a long story short, I talked to Janet about the idea. She liked the idea, and she said, You need to talk to Jeff Herman, who was my who was a literary agent and also knew a lot of publishers. And then that's how I landed with Deb and her publishing company. So, yeah, okay. 

Rich Bennett 29:40
I like this. Okay. 

Tate Barkley 29:41
This rude of so-and-so sent me here, and. And that's how it. All right? 

Rich Bennett 29:45
Mm hmm. Okay, Now, does the art marketing, does she also take care of the marketing for you? Is that or is that something you have to do on your own? When I ask these questions, because we get a lot of aspiring authors that listen. 

Tate Barkley 30:01
Yeah, the answer to that is both. I hear a lot of it on my own and she does stuff too, and we coordinate. Okay. Yeah, you know, right now, you know, we don't go. It's not Random House or Assignment. 

Rich Bennett 30:17
And she's right. 

Tate Barkley 30:18
You know, with a big budget, you know, it's a joint project, let's put it that way. 

Rich Bennett 30:24
But how are book sales going so far? 

Tate Barkley 30:26
Pretty good. So far so. 

Rich Bennett 30:28
Good. 

Tate Barkley 30:29
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 30:30
Good. What is these? So in your book, you discuss your journey through addiction and self self-acceptance. Can you share key moments that played a significant role in your path to recovery? 

Tate Barkley 30:44
Yeah, I have to say I think the key moment of them all is for me, really. There's there's there's let me share this with you. There are really two key moments. What started it and what ended it. And I'll share that with you as as as you and I talked about, we left my family, left North Carolina when I was 12, and we moved to Houston and we moved into this great big old apartment complex on the Gulf Freeway. Houston. And I lived in the same room with all my sisters. There was never any money. I was having all these feelings about being attracted to other guys, and I just felt like life was miserable and we were poor and I was in a new place and I felt left out of everything. And one day, one evening, my buddy Bruce, this guy named Bruce, all the kids used to go out behind the apartment complex, was a bayou here in Houston. We got bayous going everywhere. Right behind the apartment complex, there was a bayou. And within the kids, often we would collect back there just to kind of hide from the world. Well, this night, my buddy Bruce brought a 12 pack of beer, and it was those Miller High Life champagne of beers, I remember. And there were those little pony sized seven ounce pony sizes I'd never really drank before. And Bruce asked me if I wanted one, and I hesitated. And he says, You can have one if you want one. And then I took one and I mean, it was a little pony sized seven ounce, so I just chugged it. I'll be frank. He didn't like the taste of it, but everybody else was drinking, so I chugged it. And by the time I was done with that beer, I just kind of felt a little more relaxed and I felt a little better. And I asked for a second one and by the time I drank that second one, Reg, it was like all of this weight was lifted off my shoulders and I felt relaxed. I was laughing, I felt brave. There was a water pipe where we used to hang out. There was a water pipe that went across this bayou, and I'd always been too afraid to walk across in back. But yeah, right, right. Two beers in. I walked across that water pipe and I walked all the way back and I wasn't afraid. 

Rich Bennett 33:02
Oh. 

Tate Barkley 33:03
So I just felt so I called it chapter, the chapter where I say this I call it where I share the stories called Bliss on the Bayou. And that's what I felt. I felt. 

Rich Bennett 33:16
Bliss. Okay. 

Tate Barkley 33:17
I thought all the sudden, I can do anything. And I had a third beer that night. And I remember as as my buddy of mine was walking me back. His name was Ralph. He was out there with us, was walking me back. I remember thinking to myself, I said, Wow, I've never felt this great in my life. And I got to tell you, for the next 20 some years, I chase that's that was the best buzz I ever had. Rick That first. 

Rich Bennett 33:47
The first, yeah. 

Tate Barkley 33:49
And I chased it and I chased it and I chased it for another two plus decades. Then the second pivotal moment in my drinking well was 21 years later. By that time I was 33 and I had graduated college with good grades. I graduated law school with pretty good grades. I passed the Texas Bar exam and I had built up a really lucrative personal injury practice up in the Dallas Fort Worth area. But by the time I was 30, I had pretty much drank it all away. And I literally. 

Rich Bennett 34:26
Broke. 

Tate Barkley 34:28
And I moved in with my mom and dad down Houston. And I would spend my days back with mom and dad, just laying up against the washing machine, drinking all day, all day long, drinking and thinking about what went wrong, you know, was it and I knew that I was drinking too much. But in this particular day, Rich, I was out in the garage drinking. And then the next thing I know, I wake up on the garage floor and I'm laying, Oh, out on the garage floor. And I had urinated and defecated in my pants and I couldn't get up. My head hurts. 

Rich Bennett 35:07
Oh, my God. 

Tate Barkley 35:08
And I'd messed all over. 

And the beer had spilled that I was holding in my hand. And 

I kept trying to get up. And it was just it was so hard for me to try to get up off the garage. Floored. And I said, you know, I can't go on like this. Yeah, I can't live with alcohol and I can't live without it and I don't know what to do. So I managed to negotiate myself up off that floor. And I had kept 20, 

20 milligram. I get 20 pills of 20 milligrams of Valium in my room. I was living with mom and dad and I knew where my day and I knew where my dad hid his. Johnnie Walker Black. He used to have to hide it from me so I wouldn't drink it. 

Rich Bennett 36:00
All I knew was hiding place. 

Tate Barkley 36:02
So I went and got the Johnnie Walker Black. I found my bathroom and I just told myself, F this, I just don't want to do this anymore. 

Rich Bennett 36:12
And it got the pills. 

Tate Barkley 36:16
I took a good swig of the the Johnnie Walker black. And then I remember thinking before I shoved the pills down, I had a real dear friend of mine. His name was A.J., who was also a doctor, and he tried mightily for many years to help me with my drinking. And I just I just wasn't ready in A.J. Remember, he said, Baba, I want you to promise me that before you do something stupid, before you ever do something stupid, because that time may come that you will call this place called Hazelden just called. And once you once you call them, when you're done with that call, you do whatever the hell you want, but you just promise me and I love this man. You just promise me you'll come here. So I literally laid that volume down, Got a phone call. Hey, this. This guy, they've called him back when you used to call information. Card information. Got Hazleton's number, and I called him and I said, Look, I told a friend of mine I'd call you. 

And why would he want you to call me this guy named Ted? He said, Well, because he wanted me to call before I did something stupid. Well, the next thing I know, this Ted must have been a veteran. My, you know, Rich, because he kept me on the phone for two and a half hours. 

Rich Bennett 37:36
Wow. 

Tate Barkley 37:37
Two and a half hours later. By the time he ended that call, I had a spot in Hazelden, and I promised him. I didn't promise I wouldn't drink. I just promised him that I'd go to Hazelden and throw away that value. That's the only two promises I make. I said, I'll show up and I'll and I'll flush the back. And I did. So it was about six days later, January eight, and it was I managed to get a flight to Minneapolis. I got picked up and taken to Center to Center City, Minnesota, and I spent 28 days in rehab at Hayes. And that's. 

Rich Bennett 38:23
How things. 

Tate Barkley 38:24
Started happening. Yes, sir. 

Rich Bennett 38:27
Well, that was that your only stay in rehab? 

Tate Barkley 38:30
Oh, I'd had another stint in rehab. That was my last stint. And looking back at 96, 

I went in for seven days in detox and I stayed sober 47 days. And I said, screw it, I'm drinking. 

Rich Bennett 38:46
Wow. 

Tate Barkley 38:47
Yeah, I just couldn't handle it. But I don't think I was ready yet. And I hadn't reached rock bottom either. Right. You know, I still, 

you know, rarely too successful. By the time I went to Mom and Dad's, I had to leave my practice in 1998. Little the time I made it back to Mom and Dad's, I was broke. I mean, broke. I'd lost the. 

Rich Bennett 39:13
House. 

Tate Barkley 39:14
I'd lost the law practice, I'd lost a ton of cash. I still had my car and I just showed up a mess. And several months after being at Mom and Dad's is when this incident happened where I came very close to suicide and I started getting sober. 

Rich Bennett 39:34
Got so were you. You're actually drinking every day or. 

Tate Barkley 39:40
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I had become a daily drinker. I was a daily drinker. By the time I left law school. Daily? 

Rich Bennett 39:50
Yeah. And at their worst point, how much were you drinking that day? 

Tate Barkley 39:56
It's hard to say. I mean, I know I would go out. I would go through. Well, a typical day for me was this is I would have an honest, what I call an honest cup of coffee. I would have an honest couple cups of coffee in the morning and I dry. I'd usually drop 20 to 40 milligrams of Valium just to steady my nerves and to and then I would start with put with about two fingers of bourbon and coffee in the mornings. And if I didn't have bourbon, wow, I would use a Baileys cream bourbon. I made a point to have bourbon. And that's how I would start my day and I'd get into the office and do stuff. But by about 11, I'd be getting edgy. 

Rich Bennett 40:47
Right. 

Tate Barkley 40:47
And anxious. So I inevitably would would come up with an excuse to tell the the folks that worked with me there in the office that I needed to go make a bank deposit or fix something, and then I'd stop and get a tallboy. Miller Light Tallboy. And I had a lot of for convenience stores that I would drive by and pick up a miller Light Tallboy. Once I finished four Tallboys, I'd head back to the office. I'd work for about another hour, hour and a half or so, and then it would be time for my lunch. And I'll tell you what lunch was. Lunch was three absolute and sodas with a lemon twist. I'd have three of those. I'd go back to the office, I'd close the door and I'd pass out for a while. I'd get up, drink an honest cup of coffee, 

two honest cups of coffee. And by then it was about four and it was time for happy hour. And I'd leave the office. That was the final days in the last, say, 6 to 9 months of me having my own law office. That was my routine in all these. Now it's obviously I wasn't generating a lot of work and, you know, I had a. 

Rich Bennett 41:58
Great. 

Tate Barkley 41:59
Resource, but I wasn't doing a lot. It didn't take long. I remember one of the saddest days in my life as I was talking to a buddy of mine. His name was Howard. He was a fellow lawyer who had really helped me start my practice, you know, six or seven years before. And I had a dispute with one of my one of the health care providers that was helping me in the case. And Howard smoothed that dispute up and Howard said, you know what this doctor said? This doctor said, well, if you hadn't seen Tate lately, you're not missing much cause he ain't nothing but a drunk. And by this word had gotten out that that I was a drunk. And so the. 

Rich Bennett 42:38
Referral. 

Tate Barkley 42:39
Dried up. The friends were drying up, the clients drying up, and of course, the money dries up. The only thing that wasn't wrong with me and. 

And then I just lost it all cause I just, you know, I had gotten to the point where I had to drink to perform the most basic life skill and. Yeah. And that's just how it went. And then you start over. I, you know, I started over from that point and Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 43:11
And now what you said, 25 years. 

Tate Barkley 43:14
Five years this month, January 12 was 25 years. 

Rich Bennett 43:18
Good. 

Tate Barkley 43:18
Clean, sober. 

Rich Bennett 43:19
Very good, very good. Your book also includes reflections on personal integrity and ethics. Yeah. How did these values shape your experiences and the writing of the book? Well. 

Tate Barkley 43:35
In the biggest way is, is that I knew you know, I think sometimes when you're writing a memoir and you're sharing about things so deeply personal. 

Rich Bennett 43:47
Mm. 

Tate Barkley 43:47
I know for me. And of course, you know, I'm dragging my family through this memoir to, you know, my mom write my, my sisters. You know, I think there was a temptation, you know, for me to maybe soften the truth a little bit. But I didn't I you know, we have a word in AA that's called rigorous honesty. And in and when you've taught ethics, you know, for as long as I have, you know that the truth really does set you free. And I knew that that if I was going to do this book, that I had to tell the truth. And we were code it, you know, you could read this book and say, but I'd never hire an that man to do a damn thing for. 

Rich Bennett 44:30
Me ever again. I don't care about my God. 

Tate Barkley 44:36
You know, 

because so the first way it impacted me is that I committed to tell the truth and to be rigorously honest. And I know that, you know, it was hard it was hard on me to share with you and so many people at this point. 

The truth. You know, it's hard waking up on the garage floor after you, you know, urinate. Yeah. Okay. Do it all over yourself and you're sharing that to the world at large. But as part of the story. But that was it. That was the first commitment that I made about how ethics impacted me, that I was going to give the truth on it. Because if I couldn't tell you the truth, 

you know, 

what was the use of it. 

Rich Bennett 45:24
Right? 

Tate Barkley 45:25
What's the use what what what good's the book if I'm not going to tell the truth? And I wanted the book to do some good. 

Rich Bennett 45:32
Yeah. 

Tate Barkley 45:33
I think the second way it did is, is because, you know, our ethics and our values require us to be honest, like I talked about. And for many years, you know, I came, as you know, from recovery progressed tradition. And I was proud of the hard work that I'd done in AA. I was proud of the work and I'd worked my 12 steps. I had done this, I had done that. And if you were to come up to me, Rich, and we would sit down and have a serious conversation and you were honest and asked me, say, ten years ago, Well, have you do you carry around animals? Do you carry around resentments? Have you forgiven those people that probably need forgiveness in your life? I said, yes, I have done this. I've done that. But by God, by the time the book was done, I realized that that was not true. It just was. 

Rich Bennett 46:24
True. 

Tate Barkley 46:25
Because what I knew was, is that my father, who was the most impactful person in my life, I have not forgiven him. I might have told you I had ten years ago, but I hadn't. And I knew it as I writing the book. You know, my dad was the kind of guy, you know, he was the he was the guy that that that when there was a news report on a gay pride parade who kicked me on the floor and said, by God, Bob, I better. 

Rich Bennett 46:51
Treat. 

Tate Barkley 46:52
My dad was the guy that picked me out from rehab drunk, you know, that's that guy. But he was also the guy that probably loved me as much as anybody ever has. It was just a difficult. 

Rich Bennett 47:06
Complicated 

and. 

Tate Barkley 47:12
Challenging relationship. Yeah. And his his drinking, he could be an abusive drunk, and often it was directed at my mom, so I hated him for that. Sometimes it was directed at me, thank God. Never at my sisters. But it was what it was. So it was a difficult relationship and and even. But I had to write this book and this is really about our journey. My dad and mine, right? Me in our relationship. I don't have the courage to tell him I'm gay until he's, you know, later, way later on in my life, because I'm still even after all of that, I was still afraid I would disappoint him. And I mean, I managed to do it, but so I had to be back to the ethics questions, a long way to answer it. But I'm just telling you the truth here. 

Rich Bennett 48:08
Yeah. No. 

Tate Barkley 48:09
Yeah, it's it's. I had to be honest that I had not forgiven him, but by the time that was done, by the time I completed that book, I realized that I had. 

Rich Bennett 48:23
And the dad forgiven. Him. 

Tate Barkley 48:24
That I had forgiven him. But it took this man to do it. And it may be why it took ten years for me to write it. In the end, I don't know whether I can psychoanalyze it, but I think in a lot of ways I wasn't ready to finish this book until I was ready to forgive my dad. And that may have been why it took me damn long. 

Rich Bennett 48:45
What will it take? Something very important that I mean. Yeah, You have forgiven your dad. Have you forgiven yourself? 

Tate Barkley 48:52
I have. And I think. Good. The other beauty I think I had spent. Rich, I got to be honest with you, man, 

I can't even describe how lucky I was, how I got out of law school. Spent a year working with a pretty good firm, got called out three times at this firm for drinking on the job and for fraternizing with the staff. Two things you're not. 

Rich Bennett 49:16
Supposed to do. 

Tate Barkley 49:17
So the senior partners called me out three times, but they liked me. They never fired me. I like them, right? Lucky most folks like me. So they give me a great deal of tolerance. And I recognize, though, that the handwriting was on the wall there. So a buddy of mine from law school had opened a little law practice up in Arlington, Texas, between Dallas Fort Worth. I went up there and his brother was a doctor, A.J., I talked about him and also refer, you know, personal injury clients to us. And the next thing you know, I go off there and I start building a really good personal injury practice. And within two years of being up there, I had a very I had bought bark out. My law partner and I have a thriving personal injury practice at 27. And by 30 I had made I made more money at 30 years old in 1995 than I have since Rich, and I've done pretty good for myself as a lawyer. It was an incredible year, but, you know, I didn't know what to do with it. And yeah, Lincoln and the drug use took hold because I was a full of my admitted I was full of myself at that point in time. I was a poor boy, number one. Poor boys don't know what to do with money other than spend it and abuse it. 

Rich Bennett 50:34
Right. 

Tate Barkley 50:35
And and two, I was just sort of full of that alcoholic hubris. And then there it was a short two years later, three years later that I had lost it all. So I say all that only to get to this point, Rich, 

when I got sober and I was struggling in early sobriety to find a job, struggling in early sobriety for people to trust me because, you know, people ask questions. So what happened to that law practice of yours? You know, And, you know, and I committed to tell the truth. It was a struggle for me to get started. And I built up some resentments against myself because I had that I drank away such a lucrative practice right. And it took me a long while to forgive myself for losing something so lucrative because it would take me a long while. I eventually got back to that place. Yeah, in Bain, in Berkeley, the firm that I started with, my my, my friend in law partner, Steve Bain, has done very well. And I'm very proud of the work that we do where, you know, we have grown. We're in two states. We have been a success by any measure. But there was until I got done with this book, there was always this thing, which is think about what it could be then. But when I look at this book and everything that I've been through, I recognize, you know what? 

You're in a pretty special place right now. 

Look at who you are, what sobriety has given you. You know, sobriety sort of stripped me down to the basics. And at the end of the day, 

you know, I like life to be simple. I like to be structured and contained. I thrive that way. And when I lived the other way, I didn't do some good. And I kind of like it that way. And that's really who I am. And now I'm I'm proud of that. And I'll tell you what, that drink and take Barkley never I never had a relationship longer than three months I was incapable of having wow a real romantic relationship. But sobriety made me the patients in the humility that it takes to have a relationship with another person. And now I got to tell you, and I never thought I'd like marriage, but boy, I am happily married. I know who I am sometimes rich. 

Rich Bennett 53:12
I'm like my 

happily married. I got a dog. I really do. 

Tate Barkley 53:21
You know, And it's it's I don't 

I did. Like I said, it's not how I figured it out, you know, I thought I was going to be. But it's been a wonderful life, you know? It really has. And this book has has made me feel very complete, mainly because, you know, the book comes out, you know, really it came out on the eve of 25 years of sobriety. And wow, what a joy that journey has been for me and the people that I've met in recovery. Oh, I don't I don't even want to know how dear they are to me. 

Rich Bennett 53:57
Oh, my God. The I it's it's amazing. The I say it's a recovery. A recovery circle. The people you meet in there are simply amazing. And we for the addiction, we're actually the number one podcast when it comes to addiction. And I meet people all the time. We recorded another episode with a young lady before you today. But the 

it's the family. It is. They pull together, they help each other and above all else, they even give back to the community. 

Tate Barkley 54:40
That's right. 

Rich Bennett 54:41
I mean, it's it's amazing. It's like. 

It's. A it's a well, it is. It's it's another person. 

Tate Barkley 54:51
You know, I was. 

Rich Bennett 54:51
Just another person. I'll tell you. 

Tate Barkley 54:53
I was just telling somebody the other day, Rich, and I've said this many times, really I sit and I almost feel sorry for people that are in alcoholics and addicts 

because they don't have the joy of being in recovery and being a part of a recovery community. And being around people that get you kind of like right out of the gate and that you don't have to be afraid and that you can be honest and you know that there's no judgment and. It's love without condition and from total strangers. Because I can go to an AA meeting somewhere and I don't even know and I get love, unconditional love. The minute say hi, I'm tired and I'm an alcoholic. You know what a special, special life that is. And in this book, help me appreciate it. I appreciated it. But boy, this book forced me to look back at my life in its entirety. It forced me to look at my life, never found the joy of recovery. And that helped me forgive him, too. And I'm like, you know what? This is a boy. I do kind of feel sorry for folks. 

Rich Bennett 56:00
In. 

Tate Barkley 56:00
Alcoholics and addicts. 

Rich Bennett 56:05
So actually, who do you think is I mean, I know who this book is for, but who do you think this book is for. 

You know. Reader wise? 

Tate Barkley 56:18
Oh, reader wise, I got it. Yeah. My my hope was, is that this book, for anyone who is in recovery and who has struggled with addiction, I think the books for you, I think anyone, whether it be for being gay or some other reason, there is struggle with accepting who you really are. This book is for you and in and our allies, the allies of people who have struggled with self-acceptance and the allies of recovery. Because I tell you, I've had a lot of people who who are in my world, who are not in recovery and who have read the book, and I don't know how it helped them, but they said that it did. And but yeah, I think that book is is is for for those folks. And I think anybody will enjoy it. I think anyone who's complicated relationship with a parent will enjoy it. But those of us who are in recovery and our allies or are those who are struggling with addiction and struggling with acceptance, I think that that give the book a read. 

Rich Bennett 57:28
And yeah. 

Tate Barkley 57:29
I think it'll help. I really do. 

Rich Bennett 57:32
Yeah. And I was going to say definitely for those people and also for 

those people that even if they know somebody that is an alcoholic or that's even doing drugs or that's gay because it this way, you're, you're, you're learning more about it. And it's it took me a lot, you know, to learn all these things. And one of the things I've gotten on some friends of mine because, you know, if I met you before we start recording how we do the Halloween, we'll have drinks and all that. 

Tate Barkley 58:16
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 58:17
But I had a friend of mine who's in recovery and one guy kept pushing. Oh, come on, man, have a drink. Now, he didn't know he was in recovery, but he kept pushing it. Yeah. And finally I put it aside. I said, Look, he's in recovery. He doesn't need to have a drink. Plain and simple. Don't push it. And then finally, I had the boot. You know, the guy said they kept pushing it because he just didn't understand. Yeah, he thought. And I'm hoping that he goes into recovery, be honest with you. But he thought that, yeah, that's the only way you can have fun. No, I have met people, you know, that are gay and. Oh, my God, some of the best conversations I've had was one of them. He and I became like brothers. Now I'm going say, Yes, Derek, I'm calling your brother. I met him. He came on the podcast, and because he came out, we were talking about suicide. Well, it came out reason he had he was talking to us. I was he was gay and it was hard for people to accept him. And he does. He's also a drag queen. Oh, my God. I learned so much about drag queens. I didn't know you had different types. Yeah, you're, like, scary. You know, I had no clue. This man is a hell of an artist. And. And he cohosts with me sometimes. Although now he started his own podcast, But it. It taught me so much. And it's it's something that I've always said to myself and actually, I learned this in the Marine Corps because in the Marine Corps, you're not black, white or whatever they say. You're like light green, dark green. That's just the way it is. But I remember when I was in the Corps and I was sort of a buddy of mine, and he said, Rich, he said, I want you to remember something. It doesn't matter what color skin you have, It doesn't matter whether you're straight or gay or whatever. 

Look in everybody's heart. The hearts are the same color. We're all the same people. And that's something you got to remember. We all need to get along. We're all brothers and sisters. No matter how you look at it, we're all the same. And it's like that's something that's always stuck in the back of my head. Always, you know, treat each other with respect. It it just, yeah, people are different, but we're all the same. We're all the. 

Tate Barkley 1:01:03
Same. I agree. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:04
And oh, yeah, that's I think I think this book is for everybody something very important. How can people get the book? 

Tate Barkley 1:01:15
Yeah, I tell you what, everywhere books are sold, you ought to be able to get it, but you can definitely get it on Amazon Sunday dinners, moonshine, and then you can look it up that way or by type Berkeley, my name. But but it's easy to get on Amazon. You can also get it on Barnes and Noble panels, books, books on Amazon. It's everywhere. And at most bookstores. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:36
Now since, you know, you had 400 and some odd pages left. 

From the. First book. Are you are you actually working on the second book are playing, too? 

Tate Barkley 1:01:48
I got to tell you, I've thought about that. And and I think I may be concocting another book. I think so. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:57
I really should. 

Tate Barkley 1:01:58
Because there's there's there's a lot of stories that I wanted to share that I wasn't, you know, that we wanted to create readable that I didn't share and and and I've often thought about. So the answer to that question is I think the answer is yes, I got some ideas. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:17
Good. Now, is this an audio form as well? 

Tate Barkley 1:02:22
Not yet. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:23
Or any. 

Tate Barkley 1:02:24
And yet you can get the e-book and you can get it, but not yet. I have not record. I wanted to do the recording of the audio and I hadn't had a chance. But we've actually we're talking at this week one of the technical things we need to do to get the audio and when will I have the time and go do it? So I would say by the end of February the audible version will available. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:44
Good. Very good, actually. Have you have you thought about starting a podcast at all? 

Tate Barkley 1:02:49
You know, that's that's a thought occurred to me. So we'll see. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:52
I think you should yeah. If you have the time I would definitely look actually why not? Both you and your husband do one together. 

Tate Barkley 1:03:00
Something to think. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:01
About? Well. Yeah, I definitely, I definitely would because there's so much in that book. You could cover it. Say, Well, that's a podcast there itself. Yeah. You know. Without. Without a doubt. Now actually what if somebody wants an autographed copy? How do they get that? 

Tate Barkley 1:03:21
Well, you can all got to do is is email me at t it's it tell you to take Barclaycard if you email me there we'll get that figured out for you. Absolutely. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:32
I work there. So you have your own website as well. Yeah, I did. Barclay That's a bargain. 

Tate Barkley 1:03:37
Com You go to that website, there's even a book excerpt there and you can decide if you like the book yourself that you can pulls out and you can shoot me an email. There's a list of, you know, all kinds of things. So we just go to table com where you can get the. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:52
Book. 

Tate Barkley 1:03:53
And yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:55
Now I don't know if you can answer this question or not. You may know you may not know. How many podcasts have you been on so far talking about the book? 

Tate Barkley 1:04:08
Oh, I'd say ten or 12, I think at least somewhere in there. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:12
Ten or 12 or you got to get on a lot. You got to get a lot more. Yeah. 

Get on a lot more. It's funny because it's it's amazing how getting on different podcasts around the world has been helping authors check out new new books network. I think it's new books network dot com if you they have a ton of different podcast for all authors and if you find your genre find a share you like pitch that host and they'll get you on and Marshall Peraza and he's 

got there's been a time pod. Match.com is another place you can go and find a bunch of different podcasts to get on before ask you my last question. Is there anything you would like to add? 

Tate Barkley 1:05:07
How did you get into podcast work? Rich I'd love to go try to do the podcast. 

Rich Bennett 1:05:13
Oh God. Okay. So I, I was in radio and I left the last station in 2012 and a website called Harford County Live Incom. Just I wanted to promote nothing but good positive news and feature all the things here in Harford can because I love where I live. Yeah. That was 2012 2015. Somebody told me I should do a YouTube show. Targeted people in the area. It's like, okay, well I could do that. And so anyways, I struck up a deal where I would record the YouTube show at a local radio station, and the radio station would play it on They would play it on the air on Saturday mornings. 

Well, the first episode was in October and it was with I had three or three or four ladies in there who were breast cancer survivors. Halfway through, halfway through the recording, the guy that was filming it said, Rich, we have a problem. There was a man who said the camera is not working. So I said, Well, did you check it before you came in? He said, It's brand new. He's working out of the box. Everything was fine that day. He told me, I only have a face for audio, so I was I already had a sponsor. Sponsor was taking care of the cost to do it at station, make a long story short, we had an agreement to do six episodes after six episode. I didn't renew my sponsorship, which is a restaurant, and they're still a sponsor today, he said. Why don't you re make turn it into a podcast? Because I was listening to podcasts. They said, Why don't you turn it to a podcast? You can record in the side room of the restaurant. Were like. I said, that's perfect. So I started doing that. I was dropping in episode once a month and then they started getting busier and busier, so people were moving into that side room to eat lunch. And then my brother in law had the idea as a Why don't you move it up to the clubhouse? Because I'm in a local club here. And he said, secluded, no windows, another perfect place. So I did that. It may make a longer story even shorter. Somebody, a good friend of mine 

told me that I need to rebrand because it was called Harvard Candy living with Rich Bennett. She said, It sounds like it should be a real estate show, which yeah, I did. And I rebranded to Conversations with Rich Bennett, I guess a little over a year ago. And when I did that, it blew up, started getting people from all over across the world. Well, actually take it back when COVID hit, as I started doing more virtual ones and then as it grew, got more people on and now it's care. It's carried in 97 different countries on good page. It's the number one in the addiction category. We're in the top, I would say 20 when it comes to business and marketing and even mental health. And globally, we're in the top 5%. Wow. But yeah, now I'm dropping three episodes a week. I drop an episode every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. And I'm telling you, if you start a podcast, 

especially if you interview people, the people you meet, 

it's just I've made so many friends throughout the world from this. 

And, you know, it's it's funny because a young lady I had on earlier we are does she goes rich can you put me in touch with some other podcast. I said, Oh God, yes. It just shoot me an email, whatever. I can give you a ton. Yeah, well, yeah. I have no problem with that. 

And all my sponsors love it because, I mean, all my sponsors are local businesses, but they love it because their name is being spread throughout the world, you know, And now you have some local businesses will say, well, why do? I need my name spread throughout the world. Well, I don't know if you know this or not. People move from other countries to the U.S. So. Yeah. People will move here. But no, I been doing it since then and love it. And I if you were to ask me when I was in radio if I would ever be doing this, well, first of all, I would have said, What the hell's a podcast? But then I would have said no, because I don't like interviewing people. Yeah, because back then I was just playing music and radio, but now it's I, it, I, I think if you started. Yeah. I thought I'd love. 

Tate Barkley 1:10:07
To explore the story. Yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah. Now I'm pumped about doing it. 

Rich Bennett 1:10:13
Man. Well, now I got to get you to, I got to get my last question to you. So out of all the hosts that you've talked to, is there anything that a host has never asked you that you wish they would have asked you? And if so, what would be that question and what would be your? Answer? 

Tate Barkley 1:10:32
That is a great question, Rich, and I appreciate you asking. No one is ever ask me who is the book dedicated to, if anybody? Oh, no one has ever asked me that. And my response would be is that this book is dedicated to my mom and TB. Paul Barclay, who went through some extraordinarily difficult circumstances. But as a result of her fierce dedication to her children, all five of us became exceptional in our own way, and it was because of her love and determination. So that would be the answer. And I really do appreciate you 

allowing me to ask that question. Good job. 

Rich Bennett 1:11:15
I will. Thank you. And above all else, take thank you for not taking in Valium when you drank Johnnie. Walker because. Seriously, otherwise we would not be sitting here talking today. I know my listeners are going to get a lot out of this and which to me is the greatest reward when my listeners contact me. Even if it's just one and says, I learned this and we've had people contact us to say they found recovery, are they found peace and everything. So thank so much, pet the dog for me. 

Tate Barkley 1:11:53
I want to do it. 

Rich Bennett 1:11:54
Tell you how to I'll tell you. Even though I haven't met your husband yet. God, I would love to get him on the podcast because of the field. Yeah, he's in. I would love to talk to him about that. But. And if you decide to launch a podcast, any help, just let me know. 

Tate Barkley 1:12:11
I'll do it. Rich Thank you, sir. Man, I appreciate you had a good time today. Thank you. Especially.