The Oyster Odyssey of Chesapeake

In this captivating episode sponsored by Freedom Federal Credit Union, host Rich Bennett delves into the fascinating world of Chesapeake Bay oysters with a distinguished panel of experts: Matthew Scales, seafood marketing director at the Maryland Department of Agriculture; Don Webster, a regional specialist with the University of Maryland Extension; and Nick Schauman, a passionate oyster farmer and restaurateur.

The discussion opens with a brief nod to Rich's recent culinary adventures before quickly shifting focus to the main attraction: the vital role of oysters in the Chesapeake Bay's ecosystem and their resurgence as a culinary delicacy. Matthew Scales introduces the concept of "merroir," explaining how the unique flavors of oysters are influenced by their environment. Don Webster provides a historical perspective on oyster cultivation and the challenges overcome to revive the industry, including disease resistance and modern aquaculture techniques. Nick Schauman shares his personal journey in the oyster business, highlighting the importance of sustainable practices and community engagement.

Listeners are treated to an exploration of the science behind oysters, their environmental benefits, and the various ways they can be enjoyed, from raw to grilled. The episode emphasizes the importance of oyster shell recycling and concludes with a lively discussion on the best oysters in the United States, with a unanimous nod to Maryland's superiority.

Sponsored by Freedom Federal Credit Union, "The Oyster Odyssey of Chesapeake" offers a rich tapestry of

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Transcript

Rich Bennett: [00:00:00] So a while ago we talked about blue catfish and I finally was able to get some, loved it. But today we're going to talk about something else that's very important. It, it not only is good for the bay, it's actually good to eat. And it's one of my favorite things to eat. And I'm sorry, but when it comes to eating them raw, I see a lot of people eating them wrong.

Rich Bennett: So we're going to be talking about oysters. Specifically, and correct me if I'm wrong, Matt, specifically from the Chesapeake Bay area. 

Matthew Scales: That's right. Now, Maryland, Chesapeake Bay, all around. We even have some off the coast of Ocean City as well. 

Rich Bennett: All right. So I'm going to go, go around. Everybody introduced themselves.

Rich Bennett: Of course. I hope y'all recognize that voice there. Matt Scales, who. God, I don't even know how many times you've been on now. 

Matthew Scales: [00:01:00] I'm a recurring guest. It's okay. Uh, yeah. Uh, Matt Scales, uh, the seafood marketing director for the Maryland Department of Agriculture. Also known, also Maryland's best, which is our marketing, um, organization and our website, Maryland's best.

Matthew Scales: net. 

Rich Bennett: Well, Don, you go ahead because D comes before N. 

Don Webster: I'm Don Webster. I'm a regional specialist at University of Maryland Extension. I've been with the university for a little over 49 years. I've been working with a great deal of aquaculture and I would like to see the oyster industry in Maryland, parallel the poultry industry, and really make a major comeback.

Rich Bennett: And then the man who got his hair cut just for this, even though we're not recording or we can't see video. 

Nick Schauman: Uh, yeah, definitely have a face for radio. Uh, thanks for having me rich. Long time listener. First time caller. [00:02:00] I'm the owner of the local oyster and co owner of true Chesapeake. Oyster company, uh, master shucker.

Nick Schauman: Uh, uh, oysters have been my life for about 10 years now. And, um, I'm just here to help spread the love. 

Rich Bennett: Wait a minute, Nick, do you, do you have one of the oyster farms? Yes. I think my niece or my cousin may have done some work with you. Becky Smith. 

Nick Schauman: That is quite possible. Uh, yeah, we have a, we have a farm boss who lives down there full time.

Nick Schauman: And, um, you know, uh, a team that, uh, comes seasonally, uh, depending on, you know, that time of year, whether you're, we're either planting or harvesting, uh, but yeah, uh, we're down, uh, the farm's located in Ridge. Down in St. Marius County. 

Rich Bennett: Okay. So before we get into the [00:03:00] delicious part, cause I want to save that for last, because that way I'll build up my appetite.

Rich Bennett: We can finish and I can go eat. Let's talk about the, uh, I guess the science of the oysters and why they are so relevant to not just the Chesapeake Bay, but everywhere 

Don Webster: as all of our extension publications say on the cover and big letters, economy, employment, environment. This is a, uh, species that provides us with all three.

Don Webster: Um, this was a traditional industry in Maryland. Uh, started back in the colonial days, built up during the 1800s. Uh, when I started working back in the 70s, we were doing two and a half to three million bushels of oysters a year in Maryland. We had over 40 processing plants. Uh, it's been a fascinating industry.

Don Webster: We had, um, Diseases that moved into the mid Atlantic from the sixties to around the eighties that largely [00:04:00] wiped out a lot of our native native stocks. But, um, science has come along to create lines of oysters through breeding that are resistant to disease. Um, we were able to change a lot of our laws in Maryland to, uh, spur the development of oyster aquaculture and, uh, look at moving forward from here.

Rich Bennett: And wasn't there. I wouldn't say it wasn't too long ago where we took a big hit as far as the oysters in the bay goes. When I say a big hit, I mean like almost to where there was practically nothing out there. 

Don Webster: Well, it's interesting when you go back and look at the, uh, the whole history of it from the, uh, like the 1800s.

Don Webster: Um, When new England had largely wiped out a lot of their stocks up there. And they, they looked down here and saw this oyster gold mine and brought the toad oyster dredge down that was towed by sailboats back then around 1830, uh, led [00:05:00] to this came at the same time as, um, Canning technology, early refrigeration, and the big one was expansion of the railroads to the West, which opened vast new markets for the product and led to this oyster gold rush down here.

Don Webster: Um, and it, uh, took off up. The highest harvest we had, 1885, was a 15 million bushel harvest. And a lot of the scientists back then were cautioning about taking too many. And shortly after that, it took a nosedive down from 1930 to the 1980s, about 50 year period. We did about two and a half to three million bushels a year in Maryland.

Don Webster: Um, and more, more so in Virginia. But then, uh, the twin diseases that moved in here basically wiped out the mid Atlantic. New Jersey, Delaware, uh, got into the Chesapeake Bay and, uh, really knocked the populations down tremendously. But, uh, we've been really trying to rebuild through, [00:06:00] um, with the public fishery, the public resource, sanctuaries, um, harvest areas for the watermen, as well as, uh, private leases where people plant oysters, raise them, and then sell them year round.

Don Webster: And 

Rich Bennett: with that, or, or the farming of oysters, how long ago did that start? 

Don Webster: It's really one of the one of the most interesting books was written in 1894 by William Brooks of Johns Hopkins. It was actually reprinted a few years ago. Um, and, uh, Brooks actually worked out how hours spawn, but it mentions in there that the Romans.

Don Webster: Used to, uh, uh, tie groups of, um, uh, sticks together, uh, weight them with a rock and they would float up in the air and the larvae in their areas would attach to the sticks and grow. So yeah, I've been around for a few thousand years. People have worked on aquaculture. 

Matthew Scales: You know, it's actually rich that Aphrodite [00:07:00] herself arose from a giant oyster in Greek mythology.

Rich Bennett: I like that one. You know what, Matt? I can never tell if you're messing with me or not, man. 

Matthew Scales: Read it in a book.

Rich Bennett: But as far as the farming goes, when did it start here in the Chesapeake Bay? Has that always been a thing? 

Don Webster: Yeah, actually it's, well, uh, back in the 1800s, uh, Maryland was one of the first three states in the country to actually have a lease law with the, uh, the one acre law back in the mid 1800s, uh, that was raised to five acres in 1865.

Don Webster: And then, uh, 1906, basically, uh, by a lot of the pushing that William Brooks did, uh, got one of the first modern, uh, leasing programs in Maryland and also led to the, uh, the Yates survey, where they surveyed all of the natural oyster bars. Put them on the charts for, uh, protection for, for the Waterman for public harvest in the [00:08:00] future.

Don Webster: Virginia did likewise, Virginia, Virginia, actually there, the bulk of their harvest always came from leases and about 80 percent of theirs came from leasing. And they always out harvested Maryland cause the higher salinity, but, uh, 

Rich Bennett: yeah, 

Don Webster: I'll be darned. I 

Rich Bennett: didn't realize that something else that always has baffled me.

Rich Bennett: And if I'm wrong about this, please correct me, but it seems like, and I don't know which way it goes, but when you're going up the Bay, depending on where you get your oysters from, you know, which river or whatever, the either going to taste sweeter. Or saltier. Why is that? 

Don Webster: Uh, basically they taste like the water they are in.

Don Webster: If you've got oysters in the coastal bays, they're going to be very salty because of the higher salinity over there. The farther up the bay you go, the less salinity you generally have. Um, if you took oysters and put them in ten different areas of the bay, you'd have ten different tastes. 

Rich Bennett: [00:09:00] Mm. 

Don Webster: Okay. 

Nick Schauman: Hey Rich, just, just chiming in here.

Nick Schauman: Uh, the term for that is called meis. So it's 

Rich Bennett: Sorry, what? 

Nick Schauman: Meis 

Rich Bennett: ma. Okay. I thought you said something else for a minute there. 

Nick Schauman: this, 

Rich Bennett: we're, perform the wrong stuff here, . 

Nick Schauman: It's, uh, it's, it's similar or derived from the, uh, the term terroir, which is, you know, the, oh, how, how you would describe. The taste of a grape from the soil it lives in.

Nick Schauman: Uh, it's the same applies to oysters and the water. 

Rich Bennett: Interesting. Okay. Yeah. And with that, um, I love oysters. Sorry. I'm just a big oyster fan. I am, you can't beat them, but there's always been growing up. I heard this all the time. And then recently I was told that's not the truth [00:10:00] as far as eating oysters, raw oysters, we were always told you can only eat them in months that ended in R.

Rich Bennett: All right, Don, you're laughing, but you know, 

Don Webster: I'm sorry, but the best lot, the best response to that I ever heard was, uh, one of the. One of Nick's, uh, folks down there in Southern Maryland, Tal Petty, has Hollywood Oyster Company, was interviewed on television at the time, and the guy interviewing him said, I understand you can only eat oysters with, months with the R in a metallic, and he says, they all have an R in it.

Don Webster: And the guy looking at him kind of funny said, it's called refrigeration. 

Matthew Scales: I heard that this past week, Don, actually at the Boston show, and Tal was there, and that, Legend lives on,

Rich Bennett: but something you just said there to refrigeration. And I think that's something that's important that a lot of people, um, you know, mess up if they get the raw oysters, they're not keeping them [00:11:00] on ice. And you have to, don't you? Especially even when you're shucking them and eating them, you don't you start to keep them on ice.

Rich Bennett: Nick is not in his head. Nick, nobody can see you. Yeah. I mean, 

Nick Schauman: who wants a warm oyster? 

Rich Bennett: Well, nobody. I mean, well, no, you've heard, you've had people make oyster shooters and they're warm when they, well, I don't know. Yeah. Warm them. 

Nick Schauman: Our month. It's, it's definitely about refrigeration. There also is something to be said about water temperature.

Nick Schauman: So, um, wild oysters, uh, generally, uh, spawn and go through their reproductive cycles. When the water is warm in the summertime. And when that happens, they deplete, um, a lot [00:12:00] of their body mass, you know, because of the energy used to, uh, go through those, those cycles. So they actually kind of thin out and they get kind of watery and they're not really as appetizing.

Nick Schauman: As they are like in the spring or the fall in the colder winter or the colder water months, 

Rich Bennett: right? So with oysters, can one of you explain to everybody the benefits, why it's so, and why I want to say healthy for you. It's the good fat to eat. I'll, I'll, 

Nick Schauman: I'll, I'll chime in and say, um, you know, they're, they're a super food.

Nick Schauman: They are, they are packed with magnesium and zinc and protein and amino acids. Uh, and all of the things that, you know, you don't normally [00:13:00] consume with, uh, you know, a basic American diet. So, you know, if, if you're, if you're eating oysters on a regular basis, knock on wood, I mean, I haven't had a cold. I don't know.

Nick Schauman: 10 years because, because I eat oysters, uh, pretty much every week. 

Rich Bennett: Oh, I thought you were going to tell me every day for a while, for a minute there and put them in your omelets and everything. I 

Nick Schauman: do enjoy an oyster omelet. They are delightful. 

Rich Bennett: Really? Are you, are you serious? I've never tried that. 

Nick Schauman: Yeah, that's, uh, it's, uh, they're, um, there are two different ways to make oyster omelets.

Nick Schauman: You can do like the Asian version or, uh, New Orleans, uh, Cajun culture has an oyster omelet, uh, both delicious. 

Matthew Scales: All right. I think that brings up a point too, Rich, with, um, Different recipes, you know, and, uh, talking with actually [00:14:00] Tal Petty, who Don mentioned with Hollywood Oyster Company this past weekend, there's so many different recipes that people can do with oysters, uh, shucked oyster in the container, oysters on the half shell, um, naked oysters, Rockefeller.

Matthew Scales: Um, you know, making a baked oyster with crab meat imperial on top. There's a restaurant that does a really great job of, um, a baked oyster with slaw and crab meat and everything on top. So getting creative with it, um, I think is the key here. And, um, having oyster stew, um, you mentioned, uh, shooters. There's so many variations that you can use oysters with.

Matthew Scales: I think sometimes people forget, wow, actually you can, there's a whole things you can do with oysters rather than just eating them raw. Oyster pot pie. Mmm. 

Nick Schauman: Oh, 

Rich Bennett: oyster pot pie. 

Nick Schauman: It's awesome. And, uh, at our restaurant, our, uh, at our restaurant, true Chesapeake, our chef, [00:15:00] um, does an oyster Caesar salad. And instead of using the anchovy.

Nick Schauman: In the salad dressing, they act, we actually smoke, uh, our oysters and then use them, uh, for the, the base of the salad dressing. So delicious. 

Rich Bennett: You know what? I think some restaurants are missing that because when you just mentioned that replacing it with anchovies, have you seen a pizza yet with oysters on it?

Nick Schauman: We've done it once or twice. I mean, my, my buddy David over at the charmer. He's actually made oyster ice cream. Uh, it was a, it was a experiment. 

Rich Bennett: Well, Hey, look, if you didn't have pickle ice cream, I guess you could have oyster ice cream. 

Nick Schauman: Hey, 

Matthew Scales: they made a great day. Caramel ice cream at the charmer. I'm sure they made a great oyster ice cream.[00:16:00] 

Rich Bennett: I'm still, I'm still floored about the oyster and this is something I'm going to have to try now. Um, but what, all right, with eating them raw and I, I get into arguments with people about this, believe it or not. Um, cause you know, some people like to. Put the cocktail sauce on there. Some people like to drizzle it with lemon.

Rich Bennett: I don't like anything on mine. And for some reason, a lot of people just slurp it right out of the show and swallow it and they're not chewing it up. I love to chew it up to get that flavor. What is the proper way to eat raw oysters? 

Nick Schauman: Got to bite it, ma'am. Like, what's the, like, would you, would you take a.

Nick Schauman: piece of filet mignon and swallow it without at least biting into it. 

Rich Bennett: No, and that's my thing. Everybody's like, [00:17:00] no, it's always, it just, it's like snot. You just smile. I said, no, you're not getting the taste of it. You have to chew it up. That is 

Nick Schauman: one word we, we, Prohibit from the oyster bar. You're not allowed to say snot.

Nick Schauman: I love it 

Rich Bennett: I love it. I love it 

Matthew Scales: Yeah, I mean biting into that meat it's it's a great meat it's a great source Protein right and so biting into that. I mean everyone has a different way of Eating an oyster, right? I've tried it raw and, you know, you talked, we talked earlier about the different types of salinity.

Matthew Scales: There's different types of salinity all throughout the Chesapeake Bay and then off the coast of Ocean City, you know, um, true Chesapeake oysters, maybe different salinity than fallen pine oysters, you know, based on the geographical. Nature of their farms, wild cod, et cetera. So, um, I think that plays into it.

Matthew Scales: Um, I was up, [00:18:00] uh, again, this past weekend in Boston and, uh, black pearl spice, which is an oyster salsa company. Um, you know, they got tired of sauce. They're like, you know, cocktail sauce, this stuff is not great. And so they created this amazing salsa that I tried for the first time. And was really good on an oyster.

Matthew Scales: So it's like, now that is my go to for oysters. 

Rich Bennett: All right. So with each of you, when it, when it comes to eating oysters, what is the best way that you've had them so far?

Nick Schauman: Go for it, Don. You start. Yeah, go ahead, Don. 

Don Webster: Actually, to be honest, we're getting ready to buy a case of them this weekend. It's my wife's birthday and the family's coming. We're going to have another seafood extravaganza. But actually, one of my favorites is, um, put them on the grill. You put them on the grill, you wait until they pop [00:19:00] open, take the top shell off, making sure that you have gloves on to do it, and then put some spices on it.

Don Webster: Um, I've seen this done around the country. There's actually one, an oyster company, um, just north of San Francisco that has, uh, tanks, tanks on shore where they pump the water through and they have a lot of picnic cables and grills. And they have people that'll call two or three months ahead of time trying to book, book a table and a grill.

Don Webster: Wow. But they're really good. I have been put your different. Sauces and whatever you want on them. They were wonderful. 

Rich Bennett: I did that for the first time this past summer. Uh, my, my brother in law brought a case of oysters over and we put them all in the grill, let them pop open and just ate some of them right off the shell.

Rich Bennett: Some of the other ones, we put some seasoning on, put them back on. Oh yeah. They were good. And it's fun. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. 

Matthew Scales: Go ahead, Matt. I'm going to like Nikko next. 

Rich Bennett: Okay. 

Nick Schauman: Uh, [00:20:00] yeah, I thought it was cool, uh, Don, that you said, you know, you've got a, you've got a birthday coming up. So you're going to go get a case.

Nick Schauman: I mean, that's, that's why I got into oysters because, you know, every time we had a, a special occasion or Thanksgiving or, or new year's day or grandma's birthday, like you always, and my grandfather would always show up with a bushel. And like perch up in the garage with the transistor radio. And like, that was my favorite thing was just to like, hang out and shuck oysters with Popsy, you know, all day long.

Nick Schauman: And, um, you know, I think it's, it's, it's. oysters have are in having a renaissance, if you will. Um, but yeah, I've, I've had them all ways. Um, I think my favorite is definitely, well, other than raw, uh, I love a great fried oyster [00:21:00] or, um, I don't know if you guys are familiar with padding oysters. I'm sure Don knows what I'm talking about, but, um, that is kind of like a lost art, uh, that was, you know, my grandma, you, once, once a year, I think it was the Cockeysville volunteer fire department would have an oyster supper and my grandma and all of her church friends would gather at, uh, in grandma's kitchen and they would pad oysters for days.

Nick Schauman: So it's literally the process of. Um, 

Rich Bennett: patting them dry. 

Nick Schauman: Yeah. Well, you kind of like cake them together. So instead of one little fried oyster, you're actually creating a cake or a pad. 

Rich Bennett: Oh, 

Nick Schauman: so you know, you could get a padded oyster, probably six, seven, eight. 10 inches across and it might have, you know, 8 [00:22:00] or 10 oysters in it.

Nick Schauman: And then you just put that baby in the fryer and man, it's there, nothing like it. 

Don Webster: You're right there, Nick. My wife, I live in Talbot County and I spend a lot of time down at Tillman Islander. And my wife and I were talking recently about that. And Tillman Fire Department used to do turkey and oyster suppers.

Don Webster: And they would do, you know, Double padded oysters down there that were counts the very, very large oysters back then. And we took a friend down there one time. He thought they were real cutlets, but they were. 

Nick Schauman: Yeah. So if Don, if you've got a recipe, I mean, my, my grandma's cookbook doesn't exist anymore. You know, there's, there are certain ways, like you had to pat it and then put it on wax paper in the fridge for overnight and then pat it again.

Nick Schauman: Um, and it's a whole process, but, uh, yeah, it's people don't do it anymore. Except on the Eastern shore. I imagine.[00:23:00] 

Matthew Scales: I'll start. We need to, I guess, re erect, right? I don't know. That sounds interesting. I'm 

Nick Schauman: putting it in my new book. 

Rich Bennett: I'm thinking I'm going to do that. It really messes with everybody and make. Oyster burgers, but not let them know that they're oyster 

Nick Schauman: but just to Like prove how how much of a lost art it is google it like there's one video on the entire internet and it's a It's a lady making padded oysters at the methodist church here in hamden.

Nick Schauman: Wow, that's the only one i've ever found Interesting. 

Rich Bennett: Yeah. Yeah, there's I know the internet's got a ton of different recipes For oysters that I want to try 

Matthew Scales: Well, you know, that's a perfect segue that Maryland's best. net has a great recipes, uh, for oysters and also [00:24:00] restaurants, uh, light, true recipe, which are company that has some great oyster recipes.

Matthew Scales: Um, yeah, you know, I mean, I like my oysters, uh, Like I said, with the, uh, that's new salsa now, um, a little bit of lemon on top. Um, there's this really great, uh, grilled garlic butter that goes on top as well. Uh, I forgot who made that, but those were really good right off the grill. Um, my mouth is just watering as I'm thinking about some of this stuff.

Matthew Scales: So a lot of great different ways to do this, but you know, to Nick and Don's point about. Getting oysters to celebrate occasions. I actually was just quoted in an article about the oyster industry. And, and, you know, I said, oysters are a great thing to celebrate birthdays, to celebrate anniversary, celebrate those special occasions.

Matthew Scales: And, you know, I, I know, you know, the recession has been looming for the past year, but nothing too drastic has come to play. And I think people maybe were, uh, maybe a [00:25:00] little bit. Skeptical holding back, um, on spending and, you know, so of course, when you have seafood, which it's a really low percentage number that, uh, Americans are eating seafood to begin with compared to beef and pork and poultry, but we really need to encourage that.

Matthew Scales: Seafood is a great protein. It's also a great thing to go out there and celebrate with, um, to, you know, Don celebrating his, his wife's birthday with, you know, some oysters. That's a great thing. You know, people need to, you know, just let loose, let loose a little bit, uh, and, uh, shell a break.

Rich Bennett: I like that. I like that, 

Matthew Scales: that, that might be a new campaign. By the way. I was just asking here,

Rich Bennett: and who is, who's the guy that did the one song for Baltimore, crabs for Christmas? I think he needs to redo it and make it oysters for Christmas. 

Matthew Scales: [00:26:00] Yeah. I mean, he's or 

Rich Bennett: crabs and oysters for Christmas and blue cat. 

Matthew Scales: He's still around. So yeah, we should, uh, reach out to him for sure. Uh, 

Nick Schauman: PBS. 

Matthew Scales: Yeah. And he was actually on Fox 45 recently too, uh, around the holidays, doing the whole thing.

Rich Bennett: Yeah, I think he still goes around during the holidays, goes to different places, him and his horns and, uh, played the song. Tell everybody, number one, I hope I don't start a battle here. Who has the best oysters? I'm not talking about restaurant wise. I'm not talking about restaurant wise. I'm talking about in the United States, who has the best oysters?

Matthew Scales: Maryland. Uh, Maryland. That's oysters. I, you know, I, I mean, You know, I'm not saying that because I'm coming from the States, but, [00:27:00] you know, there's, there's been oyster events. Uh, you know, uh, we work with oyster recovery partnership, uh, Chesapeake Bay founder, and they put on some oyster events and, um, different oyster sampling at their events and me.

Matthew Scales: Tasting all the oysters and it's, they're all great. You know, they have a, uh, to what you were saying earlier, rich, some are a little bit saltier than others. Um, but regardless, they all have something to offer. Um, everyone's palate. So I would say Maryland oysters have something that no other oyster has in the state of Maryland and talking with chefs, you know, we're willing to put that on the line, go up to New York and New York's oyster bar and say, look, yeah.

Matthew Scales: Our oysters are better than yours up here. Uh, and I'll, and I'll tell you too, when I was at the, the seafood expo in Boston this past weekend, we had some companies up there shucking oysters and a lot of pleased customers out there for, uh, for Maryland oysters, but that's just [00:28:00] my, 

Rich Bennett: all right, Nick Howard, a compared to golf.

Nick Schauman: Oh Um I'm going to agree with matt since he's the one who asked me to join you guys on this podcast um, no, I I'm I'm born and raised in maryland, man. They're in my blood. Uh, you know, i've been I've been slurping oysters since I was two years old. I think my first oyster was at lexington market. Oh, wow Yeah, like like in 19 I'm going to say 74, 75.

Nick Schauman: Uh, you know, when I, I, I was think I was eating oysters before I could talk. Um, but that said, you know, I think everyone across the globe, you know, they can say the same about their oysters because oysters grow all over the planet. And, um, You [00:29:00] know, uh, a couple of weeks ago, um, I work with, uh, the oyster master guild.

Nick Schauman: Um, it's, uh, it's an organization of like oyster enthusiasts and shuckers. Um, and we did, uh, we did a five species tasting. So we actually tasted all five species of oysters from across the globe, side by side. And I mean, it was incredible to, to just taste the variety of. You know, uh, an oyster from France next to an oyster from Japan next to an oyster from the Chesapeake Bay.

Nick Schauman: Uh, they're all, they're all, they're all complex and, um, you know, there's a whole world out there to explore. 

Rich Bennett: All right, Don, I bet you're going to say the same thing, aren't you? 

Don Webster: It is interesting. There are, there are different species, there are different areas they're growing in. Um, One of [00:30:00] the principal species grown in the Pacific Northwest, the native oyster out there, the Olympia oyster, uh, sort of died out a hundred years ago and they, we didn't have federal laws back then.

Don Webster: So they imported oysters from, uh, from Asia and they basically grow a lot of, uh, Crassostria gigas, Japanese oyster out there. And it's interesting cause it's a, it's a very white meat, a very black mantle, and it has kind of a metallic aftertaste to it. And it's, it's, well, it's, it's, Yeah, you say that, but it's interesting when you talk to folks, uh, from that area and they go, yeah, we've tried your oysters too.

Don Webster: They're nice, but they don't have that, that nice aftertaste. Right. So it's, you know, it's, it's what you get used to. And like, I, you know, we've, we've made a lot of progress in Maryland with, um, commercial aquaculture. We've got about 8, 000 acres that are in production right now. Um, we have some major oyster hatcheries that keep these going.

Don Webster: Uh, been a lot of technology brought into this. [00:31:00] As I said, my goal, I'd like to see 50 to a hundred thousand acres in production in Maryland with, um, you know, oysters harvested 12 months a year. I keep, um, I keep telling my guys, I want to see Wendy's and Popeye's and Burger King fighting over who's got the best oyster sandwich, 

Rich Bennett: watching Chick 

Don Webster: fil a, uh, you know, compete against, uh, oysters, RRS across the street.

Rich Bennett: One of the things I got to tell you guys, cause I talked to people from all over the world on this. And when we're done recording, of course, we always talk about food and I want to say probably, well, most of my guests have said if they ever come to Maryland. They're going to look me up and we had, they want to try our crabs and oysters.

Rich Bennett: And it's like, I don't. I'll be out the crabs. I know a bit, you know, everybody always tells me about Maryland crabs, but I can't believe how many people say they have to try our oysters, which just [00:32:00] goes to show to me, I mean, we have the best around, yeah, yeah, I mean, you can't beat them 

Matthew Scales: and, you know, coming up to the Chesapeake Bay, right.

Matthew Scales: The largest estuary in the United States, that is our jewel that we hang our hat up on and leads out into the Atlantic ocean. And so. I definitely make those oysters and crabs and everything off. Seafood is very special here in Maryland. Um, and you know, for the Maryland Department of Ag and Maryland's best, we've done some promotions where we just wrapped up in February.

Matthew Scales: We had a program called Shuck and Stout. Uh, so every February, uh, the Maryland Brewers Guild had fed brewery. Uh, where it was highlighting Maryland beer. So when I came on board with my colleague, Kristen, we said, what, what goes great with beer, oysters, right? Let's, uh, match up restaurants that are serving [00:33:00] local Maryland beer.

Matthew Scales: And who are also serving local Maryland oysters. And so we did, we had great participation for our first year, uh, put some marketing behind that, uh, did some media as well and really got some great results. I think, uh, we're still getting some numbers in, but definitely a successful campaign. I think that will continue on for next year, make it bigger and better.

Matthew Scales: And then something that we're, uh, ramping up right now. We're about 15 days away from it is national oyster or the half shell day, which is March 31st this year. It happens to be on Easter, but that's okay. Uh, we have partnered, uh, mayor department of Vegas. Partnered with oyster recovery partnership where we have five participating restaurants in the Annapolis area.

Matthew Scales: Again, this is another first year thing we're doing and next year, hopefully expanding to Baltimore and other bigger, better, but five participating restaurants in Annapolis that are [00:34:00] serving up six free oysters. With pre registration, uh, we're capping it at a hundred people. Uh, so go to Maryland's best.

Matthew Scales: net, register if there are any registration slots open again, we're capping it at a hundred. Um, but for those first hundred people, you'll get six free oysters. And the goal is you go and you get your six free oysters and you'll want more and your friends and family that are with you. We'll also want some.

Matthew Scales: And so you end up having an oyster feast. And again, it's on Easter. And what better way to celebrate a holiday? Mm-Hmm. back to celebrations than, uh, shelling out. Uh, some, some great Maryland oysters. 

Nick Schauman: This just in, I sent out a text and, uh, all 100 spaces have sold out.

Matthew Scales: All, uh, six times hundred, 6, 000 on the net. 

Rich Bennett: Matt, you mentioned something about, you know, pairing [00:35:00] with oysters and the beer. Now I'd never tried a stout with oysters yet. So I'm going to have to try that. But I've always, it was always beer with oysters. Then this summer I tried something different. And wow, it opened up the drink and it also opened up the taste of the oyster more, and that was trying it with bourbon.

Rich Bennett: I made it just a regular, well, not regular, uh, smoked old fashioned and has raw oysters with it. If you like bourbon, you have to try that. 

Matthew Scales: Well, I'm a huge fan of bourbon. And, um, uh, November is National Spirits Month and I know the, uh, the Spirits Guild usually does something. So maybe there is something we can do this coming November with them and do oyster shooters and oysters and bourbon or something.

Rich Bennett: Yeah. Yeah. Or you could try rye. Isn't there a local? Place of the story that makes right. [00:36:00] 

Matthew Scales: I'm sure Nick knows. 

Rich Bennett: Yeah. 

Matthew Scales: Sagamore. 

Don Webster: Sagamore. Yeah. One of the, um, one of the things I was very sad to see there was a micro brewery in state that is unfortunately ceased to operate. They produced an oyster stout, uh, from one of the Hooper's Island oyster, Madhouse, Madhouse oysters.

Don Webster: I have been a Guinness fan my entire life. And the first sip I took of that, I went, Guinness will taste like nothing but tap water for the rest of my days. Unfortunately, the company no longer exists, but that was one of the best brews I have ever had. 

Rich Bennett: Well, hopefully somebody else will pick up that recipe.

Nick Schauman: Well, 

Rich Bennett: that would be good. Let 

Nick Schauman: me just, let me just mention that, uh, we do have the local oyster stout, uh, produced right here in Hamden. Uh, we were the first Maryland oyster stout brewed with Maryland oysters. 

Rich Bennett: Really? Our 

Nick Schauman: farm [00:37:00] in St. Mary's County. So, uh, It was originally brewed by Waverly Brewing Company.

Nick Schauman: Now the recipes moved over to Union Craft. Oh, but, uh, yeah, we, we, we make an oyster stout. 

Don Webster: So I 

Matthew Scales: think that needs to 

Don Webster: ship it to the Eastern shore. 

Matthew Scales: Yeah. Well, Don, you need to pick some up for your wife's birthday. 

Nick Schauman: That's, uh, you know, part of. Part of anything is finding distribution, you know, uh, since we started brewing it, we only sold it at the brewery and our, uh, restaurant locations, but we're looking to branch out.

Nick Schauman: So, uh, if you know anybody who's interested in a Maryland oyster stout, let me know and, um, give him a call. Great. 

Rich Bennett: Me. 

Nick Schauman: Got you. 

Rich Bennett: Hey, you got to try all the different types of beer. You know, [00:38:00] otherwise, I mean, you're not going to know if you like it or not. Do you guys have anything to add before I ask all of you for important websites?

Rich Bennett: Besides go eat oysters. 

Matthew Scales: I'll just say keep, keep, um, you know, the oyster industry alive, you know, our, our watermen, our aquaculture farmers, um, they all need your support and Maryland oysters all year long. Um, so get out there, celebrate and, uh, remember Maryland oysters, they're the best. 

Rich Bennett: And what's the website for the recipes 

Matthew Scales: go to Maryland's best.

Matthew Scales: That's Maryland spelled out with an S best B E S T. net. 

Rich Bennett: And Don, where, where can people go to find out more about the science of oysters, the university of Maryland has a website, right? 

Don Webster: We, we have, um, uh, website, College, University of Maryland College of Agriculture and Natural Resources. If you go on there, the [00:39:00] extension website has a very good aquaculture section to it.

Don Webster: We have a lot of videos on there. Uh, a gentleman in Logan Billborough has done some fantastic work with it. Um, and we have a lot of our publications that you can get there if you're interested in going into commercial aquaculture. We have a lot of things there. Um, One thing I want to mention, we have, we've done a lot of work with trying to get technology into increasing production and about four years ago, I was asked to come to College Park and talk to the robotics faculty in the engineering college, and I did, and we had a great conversation, and from there, we ended up getting a five year, 10 million project from the U.

Don Webster: S. Department of Agriculture to bring advanced technology and robotics into underwater in Aquaculture, you know, a farmer on the eastern shore with 2000 acres does not go out and walk that whole field to see where right problem. You put up a drone 45 minutes [00:40:00] later, you know, you, you see what's that's what we're trying to do underwater with oyster reefs where you plant your oysters.

Don Webster: But, uh, you know, to try to come up with your own technology that can go down there, tell you where your, your problems are, and then ultimately come up with better ways to harvest mechanized processing, value added products, and hopefully mass distribution. Sounds like a 

Rich Bennett: future podcast. Let's do it with, Oh, definitely.

Rich Bennett: Without a doubt. And Nick.

Rich Bennett: And thanks for, I just want to say, thanks for getting your hair cut for today. I mean, I feel special. 

Nick Schauman: I'm so disappointed that this is not on television.

Rich Bennett: Well, it's on YouTube, but just not, I mean, you just can't see us talk. 

Nick Schauman: I'm teasing, I'm teasing Rich, 

Rich Bennett: this has been super fun. Oh, Tell everybody your websites. Well, I know it's more than one probably. 

Nick Schauman: Yeah, so, [00:41:00] uh, you could go to the local oyster dot com. Um, and, uh, we're, we're building, rebuilding our website as we speak.

Nick Schauman: So we'll have a calendar with a list of events. Uh, where we'll be, um, you know, we're out and about, uh, pretty much every week all over Baltimore and the surrounding area. Um, you can visit, uh, TrueChesapeake. com to, uh, learn about oyster farming in Southern Maryland and Boca Reservation. Um, for a restaurant here in Hamden, Um, I would also suggest checking out oyster recovery partnerships.

Nick Schauman: Um, and you know, that's, that is, uh, really important to me and our organization. Um, when we started doing oyster pop ups, uh, 12 years ago. I think, uh, my, [00:42:00] my, my mentor, George Hastings, anybody in the oyster community knows big George. He was like the, the, the head guy down at, uh, Nick's in a cross street market, master shucker, uh, two time national champion shucker.

Nick Schauman: Um, he had an idea, uh, to start recycling all of these shells that were going into dumpsters. Um, And, um, you know, when we started, I think there were nine restaurants. Uh, in the region that we're recycling their shells, and I think we're up to around 400 now, um, and it's, yeah, it's, it's, it's a really important part of what we do, um, to encourage folks to recycle their shells, because for every oyster that we eat and recycle, we plant 10 more.

Nick Schauman: Oysters back into the Chesapeake. So, uh, [00:43:00] it's, it's, it's great for the environment. And, um, you know, uh, the hope is that one day our oyster populations will be back to where they were. Uh, that's, that's a long time coming. I'm sure Don and Matt can both attest to that, but, uh, yeah, every little, every little bit helps.

Rich Bennett: So, uh, so for residents. That are buying the cases where can they take those shells to recycle them? 

Nick Schauman: Um, well most oyster restaurants, uh have a recycling program 

Rich Bennett: Okay, 

Nick Schauman: you can call them up. Um, I know here in uh, baltimore, uh, the sisson street Uh facility that's our local dump. Uh, there is a recycling station there Um, and you could go to the ORP website or, uh, uh, and just Google, uh, [00:44:00] recycling drop off spots.

Nick Schauman: And I'm sure they're all over. Yeah, 

Rich Bennett: I love that idea. That's a great idea. So, all you listening. Make sure you do that, you know, with your oyster shells. Um, cause we want to get it back up there. We want to get all the, you know, love to see it to where we have more oysters in the bay than we've ever had. Go ahead, Matt.

Matthew Scales: Rich. I'll just add, uh, and thanks Nick for bringing up ORP's website. Yes. Oyster recovery part, oyster recovery. org. Uh, if you go on there under get involved. Uh, and then the shell recycling, they have the restaurants, but they also have the public drop sites. So if you, if you are like Don, uh, this weekend celebrating with his wife and you're having a lot of great oysters, um, and then you put them in a bin.

Matthew Scales: And then you take them to these public sites. Um, that way you're, there's no shell left behind. 

Don Webster: Yeah, Oyster Recovery Partnership has been a [00:45:00] tremendous organization. They've really helped a great deal. We've had people from other states who came up here to see what was going on and went back and reported to their state government.

Don Webster: We need an Oyster Recovery Partnership. 

Rich Bennett: Yeah. Now 

Nick Schauman: they're all over the country. 

Rich Bennett: I love that. So before we close, Matt, do you have any more mad isms? Because I mean, shell abrasion, no shell left behind. 

Matthew Scales: You know, I, my brain juice is all out now. So traveling and using the last bit here, or else I might have something else.

Matthew Scales: But I would, I would imagine Nick has more, some wittier, uh, things to say to me. 

Nick Schauman: I think, I mean, Matt's been on the, on your show so many times. I think you're almost a show Liberty now, aren't you 

Matthew Scales: guys? 

Rich Bennett: Thank you. Thank you so much. Oh man. Anybody [00:46:00] listen, you have any comments or questions, feel free to, you know, Reach out and we'll make sure we get them answered for you.

Rich Bennett: Thanks a lot, guys. Thank you.