Who Is Bryan Wempen Beyond His Demons?

In this episode titled "Who Is Bryan Wempen Beyond His Demons?" sponsored by "Daniel McGhee and The Victory Team," Rich Bennett engages in a profound conversation with Bryan Wempen. This episode delves into Bryan's personal and professional journey, exploring his struggles with addiction, his path to recovery, and his significant career shift into mental health. Bryan shares insights from his book, "Fuck My Demons: Redefining Normal," discussing the transformative power of facing and overcoming personal challenges. The episode is an inspiring tale of resilience, change, and the strength found in vulnerability and self-discovery.

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Transcript

Rich Bennett 0:00
Thanks for joining the conversation where we explore the stories and experience that shape our world. Amy who Rick Bennett benefit today. I'm thrilled to welcome Brian. When Penn, a distinguished author and storyteller from Santa Fe, New Mexico. Brian's work delves deeply into the realms of addiction, adoption and mental health. His notable publications include Note to Self, a collection of 99 life lessons. And sober is Better My note to self and his latest released Fuck My Demons Redefining Normal. With a Life Journey, Spain in various roles from the Army National Guard to health care. Brian's rich experience significantly influenced his writing. So join us as we explore the insights and inspirations behind his impactful work. How's it going, Brian? 

Bryan Wempen 0:50
EH It's going great. I really appreciate having visiting with you today. I'm excited about the conversation. 

Rich Bennett 0:58
I have to ask because when I just read through that. So you were in health care? 

Bryan Wempen 1:05
Yeah, I am. I am. Currently. I'm the. 

Rich Bennett 1:07
Okay. 

Bryan Wempen 1:08
Time. I got in about nine years ago into the the mental health kind of more technology side of health care. Nice work with inpatient and it like state inpatient outpatient. So I kind of work with states on different public health community health and different things. And so so yeah, that's where I spent the last nine years doing. It's been it's, you know, it's a great place, I mean, because it is it is a it is a messed up industry. So I used to be able to try and get good solutions and try and make it make that make that experience better for people who are navigating it, because it's a really complicated and people are in there in stress and pain that, you know, hopefully what I do can make a difference in alleviating that and making it a little bit better experience for people really need that support. 

Rich Bennett 2:04
Yeah. One of the things I've noticed, especially since, you know, I've been doing this, you're having a lot more people come out and talk about it. You talk about mental health, which I think helps a lot. Great. Yeah. Mental wellness is still on the rise. And I you know, we know COVID didn't help that at all. 

Bryan Wempen 2:26
Sure. Sure. Now, yeah, I mean, we're I mean, it's the numbers are the numbers are nowhere. There's no end in sight, right? Like, you know, like there's no, you know, finish line or other goal posts that you can point at. Yeah. The the patch right now I've, I've turned into a big English football fan and the pitch right now looks like it's like a thousand miles long. Like you can't see the end. You don't know where to go. And the, you know, the acuity level is so much higher and you're seeing it. So just are 2 seconds on this. But what we're seeing is like the like youth and adolescent kids and seniors right now are starting like it's it's happening earlier and happening later at a much more severe rate when it comes to like mental health, emotion or wellness, like substance use disorder and dependency, all of that. And now across a much wider spectrum at a much more severe rate. Right. And that's so the problem is just compounded and compounded. A pandemic just exacerbated it because it put people in isolation, which is absolutely like one of the things that really messes with with everybody. And so so, yeah, we're we're trying to get our hands and head around that and work with counties and states and figure out how to help private sector can help them and really incorporate it into communities and at every level. Right. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 4:14
So why did you decide to get into into the health field for especially for mental health? 

Bryan Wempen 4:20
Sure. Sure. Well, you know, it was interesting. So I was in I was in Human Resources and Human Resource Technology Consulting for a long time, years, years. And I probably stayed in that field a little bit too long. And I was getting pretty crusty. 

And I would say I have a I have a intermittent issue with patients at times. And I just I literally was starting to just really wear on me. I wasn't happy. And then I had a couple of different of my own companies and everything like that, just just being an entrepreneur. And so it came down to one day my wife literally said, or she was my wife at the time, my significant other said, You know, you are not very happy. Like every day I see, I see it in your face. I see it in your entire life. You are just I'm happy. Wow. And I just said, you know what? You are right. I am like, I can't shake it. I can't fix it. I've I've got a I've got a small software company that I started that I don't like. 

And so I've got to sort this out. So that was kind of a very defining moment. I remember it so clearly because I just am like, Yeah, yeah. And I don't know what to do, right? I just want to say, Yeah, you're in the grind and you're like, Okay, I can't, I can't let this go because it's going to be a failure. And so you're tackling all these layers of things. And so I just I'm like, you know, and she's like, Why don't you just go do something different? Like just not do what? I know you could make calls and go and do because I've been around a long time and have been fairly successful, know a lot of people. And I'm like, All right, like, okay, I'll approach this as a project, a social project. So I fired up my spreadsheet. I'm a data guy, so I fired up my spreadsheet and I'm like, Okay, here are 20 companies in the country I want to work for, and here's another 30 or 40 that geographically makes sense and all that other stuff. And I put in like 75 applications and I tracked all of them like ever like I, you know, I'm like, okay, I'm not going to mess around this my new full time job. And it was exciting and and it gave me just a mental break because I could kind of get out of my little my little misery hamster wheel that I had myself in 

at the moment. And it was funny because I didn't get shit out of it like it was the hiring process was this has been ten years ago. The hiring process has been broke everywhere for 35 years and you could walk in to the front door, ring the bell, lock it in the front door. Media owner, fill out some paperwork, have a discussion, shake hands. And ever since that didn't happen like it is, it has been broken. It's such a it's such a broke and toxic process. 

So I kind of knew that going in because I was on the technology side. I knew the algorithms, right? I knew all of that stuff how to and so I'd really kind of designed it and just wasn't getting interviews and I was getting a little frustrated. So. So what do you do? I went to my Rolodex to use an old term. I'm like, Who do I know that is in hiring talent? That's at software company? So I wanted to work for a big software company. Like who Do I Know? So I just went through LinkedIn and kind of spent a little time and this is just the most hilarious thing. So I got a hold of somebody because I. I did a podcast. I had the largest h.r. Podcast in the world. Oh, wow. We did it. We did it every day for five years. And so thousands of vowel sounds. And so we had interviewed in the first year somebody in h.R. Who is now like over hiring for a software company who I'd stay in touch with once a year, just intermittently, and we hit it off. I paid her, shot her an email and like, hey, you know, my background, being an entrepreneur and not being in health care was, was not it didn't check the boxes. So it just blows H.R. up and you have a have a weird background. But she knew me and she's like, Oh, yeah, I know you're back. Like, you got a good background, Shoot me a résumé and let me take a look and I'll at least get you an interview with, like, the first level, like the hiring manager. And like, in two days later, I was in that office and there were, you know, $300 million software company and nice. They're the biggest in the mental health field. And I'm like, went in and nailed that interview. I'm a I'm a way better interviewer probably than I am an employee. Like, I can do it right. I'm very good. 

So and then and then literally two days later, another interview. Two weeks later, I was hired. I started just I started at like an inside like an inside kind of, you know, entry level type position because I didn't know health care and I had to start learning the fluent being fluent in health care. So it takes about it takes about two years if you've done it, because it is another language, you literally learn another language. And that's how it started because I knew her and she's like, Oh yeah, I know you. And let's see if we can. Let's see if we can get past all the nonsense checklists and. 

Rich Bennett 10:07
All from a podcast. 

Bryan Wempen 10:09
All from literally all from a daily podcast that I started. Wow. My first 2010, like, I wrote that day was the day that I'm like, okay, I'm going to do something different. So I did it every day for a year myself. And then I brought on a partner and we did it every day. And then the next year we were on another partner. So at three of us and we that partner podcast still exist today. And that was that's, Oh my God, what is that touch 2010 So 13, 14 years later, 14. 

Rich Bennett 10:41
Years. 

Bryan Wempen 10:42
Later. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 10:44
Wow, that's amazing. 

Bryan Wempen 10:45
So that's the long, that's the long, tediously boring story of how I got into health care. 

Rich Bennett 10:53
So I see. I find it amazing, though, because that's one of the things I've learned from doing this, you know, for doing the podcast. You meet so many people, it's like a giant networking thing and it's it's funny how many you stay in contact with it. Yeah, it. 

Bryan Wempen 11:13
Really it's, well, like when you interview somebody it is it is a there's things that I that I learned which were kind of really surprising to this day one it's an oddly intimate exchange. Right. You're asking why people are sharing things and that's going out into the world, right? You're creating together. And to it gives you an incredibly bizarre amount of credibility. Yeah. If you do it long enough and you're I mean, even remotely interesting, I swear to God, it's we used to get credentialed as media going into, like, like we would go on stage and do live podcast in front of thousands and get paid for it. We ended up I ended up exiting and actually selling that podcast. 

Rich Bennett 12:08
Wow. 

Bryan Wempen 12:09
After we built it up. But it was, it was real. It was really fascinating and it was fun to learn how to interview, right? Because there is an art to shutting yourself up and letting people talk. And there is an art to getting people engaged when it maybe isn't their their natural state. Hey, so and you know, you you do it all the time. But those are things you have to learn because you're you listen back because I don't listen to too many back because I don't like to hear myself talk. But occasionally did. And I'm like, God, shut up. Like, just stop talking and don't ask these. The other thing is, don't ask four questions in a row. You're asking one question and it turns into four questions. Nobody can answer that. It it's not good. It's not a good interview. When you continue to answer, ask question, question, question. And they're all together. So I had yeah, and I kind of had to learn some of that stuff, but it was a lot of fun. We had a great time and I met a ton of people. 

Rich Bennett 13:16
It's it's a blast. And you well, at least for me, I learn something from every episode that I do. Yeah. Yeah. And I got to laugh because now my wife doesn't listen because she says she can't put up with my Baltimore accent. I'm from here. What do you expect? So what was the name of the podcast. 

Bryan Wempen 13:36
Drive through h.r. 

Rich Bennett 13:38
I love that. I love that name. 

Bryan Wempen 13:42
I'll tell you. I'll tell you another story. And this drew this to the my last breath. When they close the lid or turn the fire on, this cracks me up. And it was at the time I would never do this again. But at the time it was very poetic. So we were on it. Like when when I started, I kind of I was super shoestring and just kind of trying to figure things out, irrelevant within the space and all that good stuff. Twitter just came out. We're like a year into Twitter. And so social media was really starting to bump and so just trying to really learn all that stuff. And so when I brought on my partner in the second time, he had a branding background and everything. So 

so what we did and I was on board with the idea is we actually took like very recognizable logos from, yeah, food and like, like international brands and we just changed the colors and wrote drive thru on it. So everybody's like, Oh, that looks really fun. And so we, we kind of landed on the church's chicken logo and I still have, I still have coasters where you had coasters of ice. So it's a church's chicken logo that says drive thru. And we changed the colors and we did that. We did we probably did 700 episodes, so was probably two years later. We did get it. We finally got a letter in the mail with, Hey, this is just a she. 

Rich Bennett 15:21
Said, this is. 

Bryan Wempen 15:22
Says before we send an official one. So we read it. We rebranded the company at the rebrand of the podcast after that. But it was it was pretty rude, man. I'm telling you, that was the people were like, I want your logo. 

I just feel so at home. It's like, Oh, thank you. 

Rich Bennett 15:45
You should have you should have asked the chicken place if they were getting any customers from your pockets. Look, we're giving you business. 

Bryan Wempen 15:54
You know, I think that might have been part of the conversation, but the tone of the. The pre warning letter. Yeah. Was fairly 

specific. So. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 16:08
How long were you in the guard for? 

Bryan Wempen 16:11
Six years. 

Rich Bennett 16:12
Six years? Yeah. Okay. So six years in the Army National Guard. Yeah. And then you got out. Got into what? The software business. 

Bryan Wempen 16:21
Yeah, right. Yeah. Consulting software. Yeah, kind of. So I started out like I was just trying to figure, you know, I was pretty young and I was trying to figure things out and know what I wanted to do, and I kind of got into like, h.R. And the staffing consulting to start with and was really it was a it was a very is unfortunately, it was high growth and it was you know, we're talking in the nineties, it was not a healthy environment of the company, which fortunately at that point in time I wasn't in long term recovery yet and I was just, you know, a fucking dumpster fire relative to what was going on inside. But I think fairly quickly and I'm a super hard worker like I got that from I grew up on I grew up on a ranch with two parents that worked mines and mining and ranching. Right. I would take a hard work, so I don't know any different. So I just outworked everybody and I'm like, Hey, you need a problem fix. I'll fix it. Like just, you know, the joke was just fill my SUV up with money and I will go fix it. I don't care where the problem. And so I became like this weird, like little fixer who would go to like these really problem markets for this company. And so did really, really well but was really unhealthy When I finally finally left that company about 2000 actually, it just, you know, so I was there for about seven years left but, you know, really made a ton of money and allowed me. Right. It allowed me to do some other things. But again, I wasn't in recovery yet, so just had a lot of, you know, other ancillary, you know, mental health issues and just, you know, substance use issues. So that was a a constant threat around he was, you know, going on between relationships and myself and and and business. But, you know, started a couple companies started it started a consulting company that morphed into a software company. And then we bought another software company and then I merged that company with another company, a larger company, which still is still operates today. 

Rich Bennett 18:46
And yeah. 

Bryan Wempen 18:48
And I you know, and, you know, I'm still friends amazingly and graciously on their part. I'm still friends with, you know, my partners from like 2006 because it was a it was a pretty dark time. And I was yeah, I was kind of, you know, because of because of the the alcohol. I thank God I quit. I quit drugs and alcohol and, you know, in like 90, 94, 95. So. Wow. So that was thank God because I hit that, I knew that was going to kill me. That combination. 

Rich Bennett 19:24
Yeah. 

Bryan Wempen 19:25
Like guarantee like I had an overdose and said, okay, oh. 

Rich Bennett 19:30
Good Lord. 

Bryan Wempen 19:31
That's going to kill me. Like, I'm pretty sure like even in my even in my distorted state, I was like, That's going to kill me faster. So I'm not going to do any drugs anymore. I did a lot of drugs from five years 

sweating every single, you know, every single best test at the guard, like literally sweating like last person. I was like me and this other guy who who I used to do, you know, run around with. 

We would be the last two in the company that they would have to come find to do that, you know, test, you know, because we were like sweating like, oh my God, we're we're done. And for some reason, you know, grace of God or not to set things up. But we never got we never got tagged for that, thank goodness, because there were a lot going on. 

Rich Bennett 20:27
And that and is that when you started using was when you were in the guard? 

Bryan Wempen 20:32
18. Yeah I actually on the way to on the way to like one of my first guardrails Wow is when we was the very first time I remember it I literally remember at Crystal Clear because it was such a defining moment for the next five years of my life. Right guys there, you know, Guy Phil pulled Coke out of 

out of his ashtray. So I never did this. And I'm like, now, man, what is that? And I was like, It's cocaine. And I'm like, I'm like, okay, yeah. You know, because we were I was and I was 18. I was in full. Like, I don't you know, I'm free. I was in I mean, I was, you know, I thought I was off the rails at that point, but I was really going to go off the rails for years. But again, 3 to 5 jobs got a college degree like they were. I guess the university was very gracious to give me that degree, by the way, had a lot of grace in my life that, you know, happened. You know, I don't need to know why or question it, but I just as I look back and I'm like, that is that is a miracle in itself. But you know, that one, I'm alive and two, that I had, you know, people that and things and places that, you know, did work out at least part and Yeah so so yeah. And that so that's where it started. So I was five solid years of them pretty much everything but a needle. 

Rich Bennett 22:08
And how many years in recovery now. 

Bryan Wempen 22:11
I have 1330, almost 13, almost 14. A Well it'll be 14 in May, so 13 plus years. 

Rich Bennett 22:19
Congratulations. Good. 

Bryan Wempen 22:21
Thanks. Bye. I appreciate it. It's you know, there's a lot of layers to it, right? That's part of got in the new book. And well, all the books that I write about using I'll use and I'll use a term is you know, living life on life's terms, right? Yeah. Because you take the substances out and then once you kind of got the distortion factor out, then you really have to start unpacking all the shit that you were actually using substances about, Right? So the work like that's, that's, that's step one of the last phase, one of the work. But then the work really starts where, Okay, I got to learn a skill to be able to unpack a little more, unpack a little more and it's like, Oh shit, I need more skills, coping skills to figure out how to deal with this. And you just know you just have to kind of start to balance. Like I need, you know, I got to I got to figure this out. I got to get some help. I got to learn skills and I can unpack more and, you know, pack in like, Oh, shit, this stuff's serious. I need more skill, I need more skills. So it's just one of these things that eventually, if you're on board with that and you try and find good people to be around and you you get people to help you. 

Rich Bennett 23:30
Right? 

Bryan Wempen 23:31
Then over time you kind of things become a lot more manageable. You kind of get it's more maintenance and it's that awareness level and your skill level catches up. Finally, because the I started drinking when I was 14, a lot of my skill levels stop right? When you start, you think traumatic a lot of times because you're you're you're the majority of our body is you know fight or flight right. It's survival. We go into this complete lockdown. So a lot of skilling like a lot of the learning skills and you know how to cope and all that stuff just stops. So you have stuff you have this stunted growth around awareness and and so, yeah, so it just stopped a lot of stopped at 14 I was a daily drinker by 16 and all on the quiet because my parents really didn't drink. There were other Yeah. Other issues around undiagnosed PTSD from from Vietnam that my. 

Rich Bennett 24:41
Oh. 

Bryan Wempen 24:42
With and luckily toward the end of his life and it's interesting you know you hear about peer support right that's something that also is kind of coming into its own currently. Is he had a friend that he was in Vietnam with. They tracked him down after a years that he was their guy. Guy's name was Clyde. And my dad had always talked about him. He didn't talk much about that know that time in his life. And but it really him a lot. And so this guy his buddy that he was there you know that he was spent a year in Vietnam with tracked him down after like 20 years and he just found him and came and saw my dad and just started hanging out and would come visit a few times a year. I would call him. And I remember my dad saying one time he's like, you know, God damn, Claude. He goes, I don't know why he always wants to talk about that shit. He goes, That's all. He just wants to talk about it. And it was interesting because over the next ten years, I think Clyde had gotten help and he knew that talking about it or they just naturally gravitated. So because my dad never wore a, you know, a veteran's, you know, anything, you know, really he was in that shamed period of time coming back that he just wanted. Yeah, Yeah. And so he just it was just something he didn't want to talk about. It was a period of life that he just didn't know what to do with. And, and, and he didn't know why he was always so angry. He would go from the funniest guy in the room to rage like there was really no way out and which was confusing for a kid. Right? You didn't know what Yeah And so but I the last ten years of his life because of his friend kind of forcing that conversation because that's the only person they get out of with it started to normalize like it wasn't he kind of like he started to figure out how to manage all the stuff. And because they talk about it, it started to normalize that experience to where it wasn't this one thing that nobody could understand. And then he he didn't understand how to talk about. So that peer experience with lived experience, the same experience really got him healthier, like he dealt with it without going to therapy or anything. Like he was able to figure out that like it just wasn't this big thing that he didn't know what to do with. Right. 

Rich Bennett 27:15
Right. 

Bryan Wempen 27:16
And so he started, you know, he he started wearing his, you know, Vietnam veterans hat and he would go get invited and go to, you know, just like the parades and stuff to kind of get, you know, just to basically get celebrated. Right, for your service. 

Rich Bennett 27:32
Yeah. 

Bryan Wempen 27:32
And so I saw this interesting transition. And so, you know, the the the the part the part that I didn't know is all of this has been he he passed away in 2014. All of this has been after the fact. Because after the fact I got into mental health after the fact, I started writing books about it and I started. So I literally one day, you know, all my all my epiphanies come in the shower for some reason. I don't know why, but. 

Rich Bennett 28:02
I think it's the most relaxing place that happens of me. Do. Well. 

Bryan Wempen 28:05
It was my it was my one place that growing up, I know why at one place growing up, you know, bug me ever asked me to do anything so that to this day that's my really I can kind of process my thoughts. But it hit me one day like I called my mom that morning. I'm like, tell me, tell me how dad changed after Vietnam. Like, tell me like his personality. And she'd never really thought about it, Right. Because it was just she was her life. So she was in it. And and so we kind of talked about that. And I said I, I think he had undiagnosed PTSD, that he just until his friend came into his life, he just didn't know what to do with. So it was just tormenting all the things. I mean, because, you know, he he he didn't really share. He shared a little bit, but not much a little more. I got out of basic and it we talk a little bit more about it, but not much. There was just things that, you know, nobody should have to do that you know, that he did to that he had to do to survive. And yeah, now you come back and you're thrown into, you know, into a bad situation and unpopular and all that stuff. And and he just didn't know what to do with it, right? It was it just was a lost part of his world that he couldn't it was just there. And every time I think he would get in the world would touch onto the normal world. It would just create this bomb. And then he wouldn't know why the bomb would go off, because it was just sitting there, like just ready to go all the time. And so it was nice to see him like the last ten years of my life, kind of just things normalized a little bit better. And he and I mean, he was he ran pretty hot anyway, like on a good day. But that was like not that was more than running hot. And so but he was a good he was a good guy. He just he didn't have any help figuring things out. So, you know, like a lot of there's a little swirl that hopefully, hopefully, you know, you just get a little help, get a little compassion, get somebody that can say, yeah, I hear you. But, you know, let's talk this through. You know, you're obviously there's something going on right? 

Rich Bennett 30:22
So, yeah. And that's the one thing about them guys back during Vietnam, I mean, they were in hell when they were over there, but when they came back, they were in hell. And that was they weren't expecting that. They didn't get the support that they should have. And it's a damn shame, you know, And 

but that's a whole nother pack is because a lot of the veterans that have been through should still aren't getting what the you know all the help that they need with with your books. Yeah and especially hearing your father's stories and everything how how how has it influenced your personal growth. 

Bryan Wempen 31:03
You know it's and I suggest everybody, whether you publish it or not, I mean everybody's got like cause everybody's got stories. I don't care who you are. Like, most people just don't know where to start. They don't really know what to do. They don't maybe they don't want to tell it, but they got stories like, I love talking to people. That was one of the best part about podcasting was you get to you get to really hear stories and you get to ask things like if you were going to write a book, what would that what would that book be about? That was always one of the I would tend to ask that question occasionally, and this is before I'd written anything. And as you go into like it's an interesting process, like from my first book, like from my very first book to this is my fourth is a very different process. The first one, I'm just trying to figure out how to write. I'm not a natural writer. It takes a lot of energy. Yeah, I always say that I'm because of my shenanigans growing up and in college, I'm I'm I'm thankful to be as literate as I am, actually. So and so I really have to actually work on that. I try and read a lot to understand styles and stuff, so I wrote the first one and I was really struggling until I came across an author. I'm like, Oh, I like his style. Like I like his style. How he tells the story, how he writes the flow of it. It makes sense to me. His name is Stephen Prattsville, and he wrote a book called Turning Pro. That was that was literally that was the book that really define and how I it gave me like this. I had a reference point of how I write, right because I, I was wandering and man, I was so I was wandering. I was trying this. I was how does somebody write? Like I was trying to do all the like the stuff you can research and it just wasn't clicking and it didn't feel good. And so I, I ended up reading his book and I'm like, okay, I've got a reference point now. And from there I knocked out, knocked out the first book and kind of always kind of continued to keep that in focus. And then, you know, the second book and the third book was a little bit different. I tried some different things. And this fourth book, it was it took an extra year to write because I got a lot going on in life. I mean, I've just got always got a lot of stuff. And I sometimes, you know, I just wasn't in the space where I write to, to be able to, to, to share what I wanted to share because I didn't plan on writing another book. And then the pandemic kind of I kind of land look, I think I've got a little more to say about this topic. I'm done. I'm done for a while on this topic. Like I'm going to I'm switching to my next actually, book is going to be a fiction. I'm going to try some fiction. 

Rich Bennett 34:14
Oh. 

Bryan Wempen 34:15
So and in just because that's a very different it's like the left hand and right hand. Yeah, very different. Like one. I figured out I can't really do other creative things when I'm writing. Like, I must have some I must have a finite amount of creativity in me, because if I try and like paint or do something else creative and write at the same time, it's it's impossible. I just can't do that. So so I learned that grade, but the like. And then fiction. I was trying to write fiction nonfiction at the same time. Again, I don't have the chops to be able to switch back and forth on those to style. 

Rich Bennett 34:57
I'd be, in fact, I would add up, end up putting something in the one manuscript and get it all switched around. 

Bryan Wempen 35:05
It just sounds weird. So I just I put the fiction to the side and said, you know, I'll come back to it when I get done. And so, so this, you know, but the good thing is I really have learned a lot about actually writing and what what that does is it, it, it helps you organize your thoughts. It's so it's helped me very pragmatically to kind of get to your question. It's helped me like every book has helped me pragmatically kind of go back and validate what I think and to what is true. Right to the best of my memory. And I've really kind of sorted out some things, right? So it's kind of my form. It's a form of kind of self therapy for me because I'm really putting it on paper and I'm putting like I'm those thoughts now become real because down and if I'm going to publish it, then they're going to get put out into the universe. And so like they're, they're some like I can remember on the first book is when it was published, I was excited and I had this moment after I after, you know, you hit the button and it's published, I'm like, Oh, shit. Like, that's like, I can't take that back. Like, that's like that now. Like, it is out there and so you really start, you know, I had this mole, I had a moment of 

wasn't quite panic, but it was a little my heart rate went up a bit for a moment. I'm like, What are people going to think, What did I say? That I get it right. And and the good thing is I very quickly kind of worked through and, you know, because I, I good thing is, you know, I was already when I published the first book, I had been sober for probably four, five, five years. 

Rich Bennett 37:02
Five years. Okay. 

Bryan Wempen 37:04
So I had people to talk to about what was going on. Like, I'm from freaking out a little bit. And so I had people to call and say, and they're like, okay, like what? You know, what does it matter? Like, why did you write the book to make everybody happy? Or did you write the book to let people hear your story, to find the good things in it? And it's not that to help other people, they go, Let it go. It's not yours anymore. You're you're just you're just a conduit. That's it. And I'm like, okay, that sounded reasonable enough. And so I kind of I just have and you go to that a little bit because you want to you know, you want to put it you want to put good work out into the world. But yeah, you sure as hell, Like I actually write in this book, in a current book, I actually do write that specifically that this book is not written to make everybody happy. This book is written to just let people hear perspective on on, on trying to get healthier, trying to live a life that you're adding value to yourself and the people around you to try, try and make the world a little better. Place 

in what you do professionally and personally and everything. And it's all right to tell your story, right? It's kind of, you know, redefining Normal is in the title because, you know, normal gets a lot more credibility than it ever should. I think it's nonsense. I've always thought it's nonsense, but that mean that I have I didn't chase normal for a long time. I what was told I needed to be or I interpreted I needed to be and and I've just moved past the line of I don't give a shit like I'm going to go do a good job and where I need to be professional as long as it doesn't like I don't have to be, you know, false about it. Like I'm not, you know, I'm just not going to try and put myself in situations where I got to be something that, you know, that I'm not. 

Rich Bennett 39:03
And so I'm actually lost because I fuck am I Demons is your is your book that just came out. Yeah. And then sober is better note to self but you said four books. What's the fourth book. 

Bryan Wempen 39:16
Huh? So there's there's another book that I never talk about because it is my. 

Rich Bennett 39:21
Okay. 

Bryan Wempen 39:23
It's, it's a it's an it's a nonfiction. It's an H.R. book called Dancing with Big Data. 

Rich Bennett 39:31
Oh, wow. Yeah. I like the title, although. 

Bryan Wempen 39:34
I now I don't I don't ever talk about it because it's one of those that I kind of I wrote it on spec like, I guess I already had a deal. They already sold a bunch of books. Now, like, we just need you to write it. So I wrote that book very quickly and it was really kind of an editor. L Around about 15 interviews that I did with data experts within the human resource field. So it was I just I totally don't usually talk about it because, you know, it's just it's just it it was it was a point in time. Right. 

Rich Bennett 40:09
Right. Is completely different than. The other three do Absolutely. 

Bryan Wempen 40:13
And so yeah. So anyway it was it was the second it was the second of the four that I wrote. I wrote it after the first the the, my initial, my initial book. And so I kind of figured that, okay, yeah. So anyway, I don't talk about it where. 

Rich Bennett 40:29
You said you want to you to write a fiction book, right. 

Bryan Wempen 40:32
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 40:33
So I have to ask you this then. Your experiences growing up near the Wind River, was it Wind River Route Reservation? 

Bryan Wempen 40:41
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 40:44
You think that would reflect in your storytelling? Oh, yeah. Especially in the okay, hundred percent. 

Bryan Wempen 40:49
It's the first the first fiction book is is a murder mystery. I love murder. Oh, I love English murder mysteries. I love I grew up watching Westerns with my dad. He loved it. It was we bonded about. So because my my parents and all my family both 

grew up by grew up right beside the Wind River reservation in Wyoming. And so, like, still this. They all lived there. And so and I, I work partially in tribal health, right? So I've had a connection. Oh, kind of indirectly. And then more directly as I you know, as I got into adulthood with like tribal nations, tribal culture and tribal health. And so absolutely, like, I have actually wrote in like, written there's a specific character that I bring in about middle of the book because it's I've got it about at first the first draft of the book is about halfway, halfway written by 40% written. And so I incorporated in a character 

specifically into this mystery, which takes is set actually in Wyoming to start and then I time because you know you write about what you know right so yeah I end things from like I've lived I've lived in Atlanta, I've lived I've lived in San Francisco, Portland Kansas City, lived all over the place, lived in the UK, lived in Puerto Rico, you know, just spent time Puerto Rico. I lived all over. So now I kind of the interesting elements of it that people identify with, like you don't like, you really don't like if you don't live in the South, there's things in the South that you just don't know unless you live there, Right? Right. Like they're just like there's things in Wyoming that are very relevant. There's things about you tribal culture that are very relevant, like with care or so. And I'm, I'm absolutely trying to do it justice, first of all. 

Rich Bennett 43:00
Good. 

Bryan Wempen 43:01
And So but yeah so I so that's it'll absolutely reflect all of my experiences especially you know I get I get to utilize some of the darkness and, and throw that in there and spice it up a little bit. So yeah, it's, it's, it's a hell of a lot of fun writing fiction because there's no rules. I mean, it's yeah, you just got to be, you know, somewhat coherent in your story arcs and your character development and all that stuff. So I'm trying to learn, I'm learning that as I go, which is, which is a lot of fun. It really true. Yeah, a lot of fun. 

Rich Bennett 43:42
Yeah. I got to get back to writing. I started writing. I started writing a book last year to put it on pause. I got to get back to doing it. 

Bryan Wempen 43:51
So what's that? What's that? So. So tell me. Tell me about the book. Like, what do you like? 

Rich Bennett 43:57
Well, you know, so the funny thing is because a friend of mine who I had on the podcast, he wrote a book on goal setting, and that's when, you know, I started setting goals and one of them was to write a book. But as I'm sitting there thinking, see, what can I write about? And nobody wants to hear my story. And yeah, more and more I thought of that as like, Yeah, I've been doing this since 2015. Maybe I'll write a book on podcasting. Oh, there's a ton of books out there on podcasting, right? So then I got to thinking more and more is like, You know what? Now I'm going to do that. I'll write guides. In other words, like you'll see a book on podcast know, so I'll talk about everything. You're the gear, you should get the monetization, everything. What if I just did little books? Because I'm one of the very few that was monetizing my podcast before I even recorded the first episode. Sure. And a lot of people don't know how to do that. 

Bryan Wempen 44:57
By the way, what's congratulations on that. I think that was an interesting learning curve. So I appreciate that 100%. 

Rich Bennett 45:08
There's a lot of misconceptions, You know, a lot of people because these so-called professionals out there will tell podcasters, Oh, we have to have so many downloads before you can start monetizing. But you don't. 

You don't at all. You know, it's just like I came from radio, so I had my degrees in radio and I did sales. So yeah, but anyways, enough of that with your new book, Fuck My Demons. Yeah, yeah. We talked about it before we started recording about the title. Can you share the inspiration behind the title, what readers can actually expect from the book? 

Bryan Wempen 45:48
Yeah, yeah. The and people do want to hear your story, by the way. I don't want to let that go. I think you're I think you're under 

selling your perspective. I think you got it. I mean, you're obviously Marine Corps, you got into radio, you've interviewed a ton of people and learned stuff from everybody. That's a book I just I want to highlight. I don't. 

Rich Bennett 46:12
Know if it'll be a comedy, drama or. 

Bryan Wempen 46:15
But that's the beauty is it gets to be whatever. Yeah, right. It can be a drama, right? Like that's I mean, we all live in drama and comedy, right? And we live. That's true. That's that's the that's the human experience right there. 

Rich Bennett 46:29
Yeah, that is true. 

Bryan Wempen 46:30
Just keep it on the backburner. Think about it. 

Rich Bennett 46:32
Yeah. 

Bryan Wempen 46:34
So the title, I really went through a very long, arduous process to figure out the title, because usually what happens is for me anyway, and I don't, I don't think this is too different with, with authors in general, probably artists, painters like the title. I want the titles. You got to find me, right? Otherwise it just doesn't feel very authentic and genuine. Right, Organic. Whatever you want to say in all the books, you know, or at least the life, the life books that I've written, all those titles have found me. And when the title fails me, it's like, There it is. That's the title. That is the title. And so this one was a little bit tougher because it was a longer period of time, and I'm in a different place. I mean, that's the nice thing about continually writing books. You're always in a new place. 

And so, you know, I started I had two I had two titles that I was really kind of thinking about. And and so like, I started asking people like, right or wrong, I don't know if that was a good idea or not, because nobody, you know, because I had about 80% or like, oh, definitely go with, you know, fuck my name. It's like you go with that one. That one is way cooler than the other one. I'm not going to say the other one because I got another book I'm writing. Use that one because it's a good title, right? So I started asking people from different parts of my life that I knew because like everybody in recovery, right, that had survived the darkness, everybody 100% were like, Oh, no, you got to do Fucked My Name. It's like, that's I don't think don't even take any longer. And then it was about it was about 6040 for that title too with the non recovery people. And so I know I probably had ten conversations and we talked it through and, and they were good conversations and you know, at the end of the day they're like, you know, you know what, what gets you excited? Like what's something that you just can't get out of your head And so and and it was where we ended up and so what what kind of the long dated was I added like I've added the redefining normal right? So that and then also a journey to find spirit is kind of was the last thing that I've added to that because a real wrap around is about. 

Rich Bennett 49:11
My. 

Bryan Wempen 49:12
Just my my spiritual because I'm of the camp that addicts you know addictions are disease addiction is something that you can stop if you either either go full abstinence or you limit and you manage. Right. I have you full stop. I'm I stopped it by not doing it anymore. But I also believe it's a spiritual condition. Right. I had to work on my like, you know, the higher power element of my life to be like, you know, because if I'm in control, the dumpster will continue to burn. So I got to have other people around me helping me manage and understand myself. Right? I can't like again, I'm the only one driving the car. The car's going to go off a cliff like I. Right. I've tried it over and over again for many, many years, and I it just never got anywhere until I'm like, okay, I got to ask for help. I got to, you know, be willing to accept the help, whatever it is. And then and and grow, right. And grow and unpack and fix and grow and unpack and manage that and and work on my spiritual life. And so so the journey to spirit is, you know, is never straight. And it's one of those. Yeah, we, you know, that I think it's important for people because whatever it is, I mean if you're if you're the if you're the end all like that seems like a pretty in my opinion, that seems like a very small life, right. I want some things that I don't understand. I don't need to understand. I want some mysteries of the universe just to happen. And I want. I want to see other people. I've seen so many miracles in the last 13 years. Yeah. People that I'm like, Oh, that fucking person is never going to make it. Like, I just. I mean, like, there's no way, right? Right. I see them over the next year. Turn back into, you know, turn back into like a functioning, healthy human being that now is happy right there. Literally, like I'm planning on going to a funeral. Like, I just I don't put any stock and they're going to make it because it's a desperate situation. And, you know, guess what? They come back and they're happy, they're healthy. They they they their life, they start building what they burn down, you know, and the disease burn down and and so, yeah. So what you. 

Rich Bennett 51:41
Are I mean. 

Bryan Wempen 51:42
I'm literally just sharing, right? I'm literally just share my thoughts and perspective from my experience on kind of navigating professional, personal this different chapters as I kind of go through not being in recovery and in recovery because, you know, life doesn't stop, you know, until the end, right? So you're navigating life and it's coming at you with all these like all these things, you know, you know, just you name it, the list goes up and down. It ebbs and flows on where you're at and and who's in your life and what those relationships look like, how you feel about yourself. I mean, all that. That's everybody's human condition, Right? And so that's really what I talk about is like, try and just work your way into feeling good about who you are and the direction you're going. And if you don't feel good about it, try and focus on how do you change that right? Ask for help, like engage with people, do service, I mean, all those things. And so that's really yeah, with a little bit of humor here and there, a little bit, you know, there's a little bit of darkness. 

Rich Bennett 52:49
You got to have human remains. The best medicine. 

Bryan Wempen 52:51
Is, you know, and recovery people and people in recovery are some of the most I think are some of the funniest people because. 

Rich Bennett 52:59
Oh, yes. 

Bryan Wempen 53:00
Because we survived. Right. We're on the other side. Anybody that's on the other side of of death pretty much guaranteed death or imprisonment, if you get on the other side of that perspective, gets a little bit, should get a little bit better because you're like, oh, yeah, Like that's most people would be like, you know, would gasp and think, Oh my God, I can't believe that happened or I can't believe that story. And then you have people in like recovery or have been through things and they're on the other side of it. They're like, Oh yeah, that totally happened. Right? And it's, you know, I laugh about it because I don't have to cry anymore and I don't have to anesthetize myself with, you know, behaviors and and substances and stuff like that to deal with it. I deal with it because I don't care like it was my past and it happened. And so that's a lot of wisdom is in the book. 

Rich Bennett 53:53
So it's something I want to add to that because a lot of people think that books like this is strictly for people that are in recovery and that is not the case. You know, this I would suggest that everybody read these books because you're going to learn, even the ones that were in that group that said they were against the title of the book. If they read the book, they're going to learn a lot more about recovery. And I think that's something that's missing here is not with your books, but in life in general is people that have not seen anybody in recovery or just brush it to the side. They don't have they don't have a clue about it. And they need to learn more about it. Reading these books, I think, would definitely open their eyes, you know, and maybe maybe they'll help out more. 

Bryan Wempen 54:45
And, you know, and you you highlight an incredible part about destigmatizing the conversation people are at with mental health. Right? Mental health has all different levels of error to how minimal like situational like, you know, after something traumatic happens. Right. Whether it's a car wreck or you see something or you hear something or whatever it is. Right. Or grief and grief and loss is a big trigger. A trauma trigger. Oh, yeah. And so, like, that's happening to everybody. And so you're exactly right. This a lot of the book is really around navigating just mental health right as a whole person. Like I'm emotional and mental health like I'm and I agree like there's something for everybody in the book. Yeah. If you don't have like if you don't have a drinking problem, everybody has a thinking problem. 

Rich Bennett 55:40
Yes. 

Bryan Wempen 55:42
And so you like nobody. I don't care if you're the Dalai Lama, are you or Mother Theresa? They all will be. They're the first ones to say, look, I can't meditate at times because I start my thoughts start drifting, right. I'm not perfect. I'm a human being. I don't want to be perfect because I've got to be human to understand and be able to help people and the human condition. And so I don't care how Zen you are, Everybody navigates these surprises and things, right? Like, but the so the thinking problem is probably a good way to encapsulate like it really is. 

Rich Bennett 56:18
I like that. 

Bryan Wempen 56:20
And I'm taking action on it. Right. Because you there's a lot of people that just sit in that very uncomfortable miserable. I'm going to take misery off the shelf and I'm going to keep rehashing and rehashing and they stay in that cycle. And and there's people that never get out of that on their life. And that's one of the biggest tragedies and is incredibly sad to me because I do someone I'm like, oh, my gosh, if you could just find a way to not take that off the shelf any more, just let that go and start to live your life, you know, and figure out like you'll find new things that maybe you don't like, but it won't be that misery cycle like that. Open in that box, same box. Yeah. And so because they're, you know, life is, you know, life is pretty cool, right? 

Rich Bennett 57:11
It is. 

Bryan Wempen 57:12
I mean, I bitch and moan. I'll be the first, you know about very easily. I get frustrated, but I don't get frustrated for very long anymore because I have tools and I have people to call and I can write about it right. So now I can let it go a lot faster. It doesn't mean I'm not going to get frustrated by things. That's my DNA. You know. 

Rich Bennett 57:32
It's you got to learn how to it's your mindset. Yeah. When things come. I mean, I went through, you know, anxiety and depression was suicidal and I learned how to I guess you could say refocus. That would help me. There's a lot of times in not going to what I defined since, but I always knew there's somebody worse off than me. One of my bitching about, yeah, when there's people that are doing worse than me, I have no right to bitch. And that's that's just something that helped me. So, Brian, you you've written about life lessons and personal growth, but what is one piece of one piece of advice that you would give to someone struggling with their own demons? 

Bryan Wempen 58:20
Oh, big question. Good question. 

If if you if someone can find somebody else to help, which means you're out of your out of your your self for a minute, help somebody. Right. Stop and talk to somebody that nobody else is talking to. I mean, it can be very benign or it can be something significant. Go volunteer. That service piece I found to be incredibly 

healing when you can help somebody else and you can see that I you know, I don't need to know what happens, but there's something that happens that you're out of your own head for a minute. And I think that is that that's such an easy way to start, right? 

Rich Bennett 59:15
Yeah. 

Bryan Wempen 59:16
You know, and and probably the other side of that is figure out how to forgive people a lot more than you figure out how to be mad at people like that's and it's and it and there's a lot of times that they don't deserve it and it's hard to do and it doesn't make any sense. But guess what They don't give a shit. 

Rich Bennett 59:39
Right? 

Bryan Wempen 59:39
You're you're they're, they're in your head and in your soul rent free. And so the only way that you can rightsize that and give it what it deserves is you've got to let that go, right? You've got to find a way. Even the most tragic stuff, if you can, if you can find a way to to let that go by forgiving somebody and moving on, it doesn't you know, it doesn't mean that you're making it okay. You're just you're getting them out of your head. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:11
Mm. 

Bryan Wempen 1:00:12
Your soul and getting the good stuff. Like you're giving room for the good stuff to come in and not letting that bad stuff just take up, you know, They're not a squatter. You know, when you're emotional in your emotional, how well, huh? Do you ride like you just you got to figure out a way to get them out of there. And usually forgiveness is is the way because it's everywhere in your relationships. It's everywhere. And your thoughts, you just maybe don't know how or why, but if there's something you have to adjust. And I do, I meditate. I have our I have a forgiveness meditation and I have yeah, 

I've got a let resentments go meditation. And sometimes it takes months of meditating on that every day. And then guess what? It just disappears. Mm. It just goes into the ether and it back into the universe because I've pounded on it for months, like I've, because I was told like, just do this, do this resentment meditation for 60 days and then think about how important it is to you. And by the end of the 60 days, I did it every day for 60 days, morning and night for like 5 minutes, this to let this resentment go right. And by the end, it was it's never I've never it's never came back into my thought process, you know, other other than more from the perspective of, okay, what did I contribute to that problem. Like it was more I literally went the other way, like, what's my side of the street that I can work on in the future and do I need to making amends to that Like and so because it really did reframe that or refocus it on like not, you know, it took me out of that that victim because resentments and resentments and things like that unfortunately have you in a little bit of a victim loop, right. Because you're a person so they have some element of control. So just get them out. Just practice. I'm a big meditation person. I love meditation. It doesn't need to be the best meditation in the world. It can be 2 minutes when you wake up in the morning. Lunch could be when I get done with this podcast, whatever. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:30
Yeah, you people could do it at any time. 

Bryan Wempen 1:02:33
Yeah. So but yeah, so those are my, those are, those are the big ones, right. Just to get healthier. I mean because you, you got to figure out a way to heal, right. Yeah. You to do perfect. You don't need to, you know, you, you're never going to heal everything. It's it's you have we all have suitcases, bags, suitcases of stuff that are just layered that, you know, you don't know what you know. You don't know what you haven't gotten to yet until you're healthier and have tools to actually unpack it properly and then do something with it. And that takes time. It takes work. You got to do the work. I mean, that's probably the very last thing to kind of conclude. The thought is I heard this years ago is you can't expect to get better if you don't do the work. You got to do the work. You got to take action. You got. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:26
To sense. Yeah. 

Bryan Wempen 1:03:27
And if you don't, you're not much is going to change. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:32
Nope, nope. A lot of people don't realize that you have to work on yourself. Yeah. Anytime you're. You work on that. Whether it be work at your job or whatever, you're working to make things better. We got work on yourself to something very important. Tell everybody the websites where they can get your books and also the awesome blog that you put up there too. 

Bryan Wempen 1:03:55
Excellent. Excellent. So they can go to Brian wimp and dot com. That's my that's author website all the books there I've actually got I've actually got a blog series that's a little more kind of mental health health care and that'll that'll start here in a couple of weeks and I'm going to do about like eight or nine, you know, post series on that. Just talking about normalizing kind of the mental health conversation. Yeah. Give or take. And so and you can find it on Amazon like I guarantee if you type in you know 

fuck my demons or read my normal or journey to spirit or Brian when I've been on Amazon you will guarantee you find it you'll find it so but yeah like go to website and we really appreciate I really appreciate the time the conversation it's been a blast and. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:49
Oh my pleasure ma'am. But I'm not done yet, dude. 

Bryan Wempen 1:04:52
All right. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:53
All right. I mean, well, before I get to my final question, is there anything you would like to add? 

Bryan Wempen 1:05:00
You know, I would you know, really the biggest thing and you kind of touched on this, we didn't say it exactly, but the self care piece, like it just can't be understated. Right? Like, you have to like if you're not healthy, you can't help other people pray. You might help them situationally with one or like some stuff. But the healthier you are foundationally, the more you're going to be able to help everybody in that 360 degree world that we live in. Right. So is absolutely 

essential. And yeah, it's hard. It's you know, again, I'm hoping to, you know, put a lot of miles on the treadmill on the bike this year. I didn't last year and so that's one of my things I have Senator computer I got to quit doing that as much right. That's about self-care and allocating like putting intention and putting action into what I want to change. I want to be healthier and get back to being more like being doing what I love to do, which is is right. I'm a cyclist. And so, you know, I just haven't done as much. So. Right. So that self-care component is the key to that. I have to allocate the time and put attention into it for it to happen. Or if I don't do the work, it's not going to happen. 

Rich Bennett 1:06:24
So exactly. Now you're ready for this. 

Bryan Wempen 1:06:29
Oh, this is I'm an open book only. 

Rich Bennett 1:06:33
Sounds like the beginning of a song or something. Are you ready for it now? Maybe not me. It was in the song. 

So all of the interviews been on? Yeah. Has there ever been a question that you were hoping that a host would have asked you? But they never did. And if so, what would be that question? What would be your answer? 

Bryan Wempen 1:06:51
Oh, my God. First of all, nobody's ever asked me that question. So it's. 

Rich Bennett 1:06:56
A girl. Everybody tries. I pray that they know. 

Bryan Wempen 1:07:00
Yeah, that's a hey, I'm a good how does a good question I Oh, that's that's I don't know if I, I don't know if I've got an answer because I, you know, again, I'm 99% open book. I only have a very small percentage area in my life that I just because impacts other people that I just won't like I am not going to answer questions on. Right. So it's a really I'm a wide berth of probably 99.5% right? 

My gosh, I don't know. I don't have an answer. That's that's rare, right? I'm I'm a virtual I'm a virtual and perpetual answer. So. So yeah, I don't you know, I'm 

you know, maybe maybe the question would be I'm really I'm flying here trying to think that best. Maybe the question is, you know, what's the that nobody's ever asked me like what's what's the weirdest experience you've ever had in your life? 

Rich Bennett 1:08:05
Oh, wow. 

Dang. That's even a hard question for me to answer. 

Bryan Wempen 1:08:11
Yeah, that's probably somebody. 

Rich Bennett 1:08:13
Who thinks. 

Bryan Wempen 1:08:14
I know, right? So that's that's hard showcase. Like, it's hard to showcase one so that but nobody's ever asked me that question. 

Rich Bennett 1:08:22
What is the weirdest? 

Bryan Wempen 1:08:24
Oh, my gosh. Probably the single oddest thing was 

the very first time. So. So I got adopted at birth and so the very first time that and it was equally as odd was the very first time that I because I've, I've met my birth mother and I've met my birth father and I've met, you know, I've got half sister. And the very first time that I actually talked to them to clear some things up that I had, I established all these narratives and talked about what I thought was the case, having them actually bring clarity into like the truth, what the truth was like, what the actual facts were. That was pretty surreal, right? Because, you know, when I met at 33 and the other I met at 50. 

Wow. So it was it was pretty weird. And but, you know, and in a good way because you just you like you start closing these gaps up so rapidly. Like it's it's very. Yeah. So and the other weird thing is I can actually share on here because it's it's even it's it falls in the darkness side of the weird stuff so. 

Rich Bennett 1:09:50
I'm with you and that's one. 

Bryan Wempen 1:09:53
We can have over a cup coffee sometime. 

Rich Bennett 1:09:56
That's good right? I want to thank you so much everybody. Listen, get his books after you read, make sure you leave a full review on Amazon. Good reads wherever you can leave a review because that's going to help them sell even more. Go to his website, look at the blog and, you know, just get the I want to find out, you know, when you read the books, let me know what you thought about it as well. So, Brian, thanks a lot. 

Bryan Wempen 1:10:23
Man. I it buddy. This was this was such a such a good such a good conversation. And and I'll make sure I'm going to follow up, get your address I will send you a signed copy of the book so that I thank you. Yeah. Not that I actually want feedback because I don't take feedback really at all. By the way, that's interesting. A little thing like, I'm good, I don't want to know. 

Rich Bennett 1:10:48
So but I'll say a lot.